• sumo89 2 days ago |
    The saddest part is if you image search "Marco Polo argali" it's a wall of hunters posing with dead ones and right in the first paragraph on wikipedia is "Their conservation status is "near threatened" and efforts have been made to protect their numbers and keep them from being hunted"
    • kenmacd 2 days ago |
      It's an interesting question as to if what this man did was helpful or harmful to those conservation efforts.

      It's at least possible that someone who would otherwise have hunted one just to have the 'wall art' might have hunted a hybrid instead. Also from a purely genetic standpoint it increased the number of copies of that genetic code.

      • astroid 2 days ago |
        It's not really though, specifically because they are considered invasive to Montana. This thought experiment loses all merit in this case under that context.

        He fucked up in multiple ways, outside of the cloning.

        The animal (or 'parts') he imported was illegal and engangered. And he was set to further endanger the Montana flock with it's introduction.

        This guy is a menace, F him.

        EDIT: Oh yeah I forgot - all this effort was to sell the illegally imported / created animal which endangers the native animal population to bolster his business of raising unusual animals specifically for closed big game trophy hunting.

        So he is fine with risking Montanas wildlife population to enrich himself and 'create' new franken-animals specifically to kill them when they are the right size.

        I hope this guy perishes of old age in jail and this has a chilling effect on anyone else pulling this crap.

  • givemeethekeys 2 days ago |
    He was congratulated for cloning, but punished for bringing in the animal illegally.
  • kenmacd 2 days ago |
    I read the article, but I'm still not sure what part was illegal, and why. It says that part of the law is 'prevent the creation of hybrids', and the sentence was to 'deter anyone else from trying to "change the genetic makeup of the creatures"'... but isn't that way every animal breeder does?

    I get the importation of body parts of endangered animals being illegal. If it's just a sentence for that then I get it. But then why is it written that he was jailed for cloning the sheep.

    • pavel_lishin 2 days ago |
      > Arthur “Jack” Schubarth, 81, illegally imported body parts of Marco Polo argali sheep

      > The sheep, native to the mountains of the Pamir region of Central Asia, are protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (Cites).

      > They are prohibited in Montana to protect native sheep from disease - as well as to prevent the creation of hybrids.

      It sounds like he broke two laws - one about importation of animal parts, and one for having a living animal that's prohibited in Montana.

      > But then why is it written that he was jailed for cloning the sheep.

      Because it's a catchy headline.

    • neuronexmachina 2 days ago |
      You can see a list of what he pled guilty to here: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/montana-man-pleads-guilty-fed...
    • squidgedcricket a day ago |
      > “In pursuit of this scheme, Schubarth violated international law and the Lacey Act, both of which protect the viability and health of native populations of animals. ...

      > The Lacey Act prohibits interstate trade in wildlife that has been taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of federal or state law. The Lacey Act also prohibits the interstate sale of wildlife that has been falsely labeled. The Act is one of the most powerful tools the United States has to combat wildlife trafficking and prevent ecological invasion by injurious wildlife."

      Laws aside, I think the largest potential harm is introducing a potentially invasive species that could harm local ecosystem.

  • high_na_euv 2 days ago |
    >District Court Judge Brian Morris said he struggled to come up with a sentence, but had to deter anyone else from trying to "change the genetic makeup of the creatures" on the planet.

    Whatever the judge is feeling today, huh?

    • alex7734 2 days ago |
      I don't know what you did wrong, but don't worry, I can be very creative
    • pavel_lishin 2 days ago |
      My experience with jury duty this week has reinforced the fact that judges are humans, just like the rest of us, for better or for worse.
    • olddustytrail 2 days ago |
      That's literally the opposite of what the judge said. How did you translate "I struggled to find the correct solution" to "I just went with whatever"?
      • high_na_euv a day ago |
        >but had to deter anyone else from trying to
    • nozzlegear 2 days ago |
      If someone breaks the law, but the judge can't find fitting a sentence, is it justice for them to not be sentenced at all? Change the crime to something like robbery, extortion, murder, etc.

      (This is just a rhetorical question.)

    • marcusverus 2 days ago |
      Ever heard of the Hungry Judge Effect?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_judge_effect

      • grues-dinner a day ago |
        I think that study, though heavily cited, is now considered to be a pretty shaky conclusion, even if not actually disproven.
  • worthless-trash 2 days ago |
    I'm even confused about hunting sheep. Modern domestic sheep are not much of a challenge.
    • foxyv 2 days ago |
      Their cousins in the wild are extremely challenging to hunt. Especially since they are pretty rare and range across massive areas. Hybridization is one method of causing a species to become functionally extinct.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bighorn_sheep

      https://www.montana.edu/screel/teaching/bioe-440r-521/docume...

    • rtkwe 2 days ago |
      These are wild sheep not the domesticated sheep check out the picture at the beginning of the article. The difficulty is in finding them most of the time and getting close enough to shoot them ethically. A failed hunt is basically a long back country hiking vacation, a successful one isn't much different it just includes a shoot, some basic butchery, and a hike back out with even more weight.
    • autoexec 2 days ago |
      Very few animals are any kind of challenge against modern firearms.
      • tracker1 2 days ago |
        I'll see your horns and raise you an RPG guy and an F-24.
    • 15155 2 days ago |
      A domestic sheep isn't a challenge because they are located in places conducive to domestication.

      A wild bighorn sheep lives remotely and is highly skittish.

  • ChrisArchitect 2 days ago |
  • mbfg 2 days ago |
    To me the real infraction was the potential for causing disease in the native population. The rest, while morally dubious, doesn't feel like it's illegal.
    • astroid a day ago |
      He very clearly conspired to actively break the most serious wildlife protection law available, in a conspiracy that spanned over 10 years, in a position which he absolutely would have known he was breaking those laws.

      He surreptitiously and illegally imported parts of an endangered animal breaking both domestic and international laws (again, knowingly).

      All of this was done secretly, down to forging Veterinary Certificates and other documents meant to pass them off as 'legal, domestic' breeds.

      He then went on to purposefully create hybrids that he knew were illegal and invasive in his state, he knew was violating the highest wildlife law in the land (who have more authority than pretty much any police department or agency) --- all of this, with the sole purpose of growing large unique hybrids to sell to game preserves which are closed (no chance of escape) for big game trophey hunters.

      I couldn't write a better villain backstory if I tried. This guy deserves to have the book thrown at him, along with everyone he conspired with.

      Did you even read the article? Or are you just reading the comments? All of this is so abundantly clear I find it impossible anyone could read it and say 'that doesn't FEEL illegal, just morally dubious'.

      He for sure KNEW it was illegal given his industry, forgeries, and other attempts to conceal his actions.

      • mbfg a day ago |
        Most of this tho, really, is what we do all the time with other types of animals (minus the hitech cloning aspect). We import genetic material to breed horses for instance, all the time. The article didn't say they killed the animal. If they had, then sure that would break endangered species laws.

        So the invasiveness of the species and it's likelyhood to cause harm to the population seems like the key points.

        • astroid 13 hours ago |
          "Most of this tho, really, is what we do all the time with other types of animals (minus the hitech cloning aspect)."

          No, it's really not. The cloning aspect is the least concerning bit. You just handwaved away everything he did as 'what we do all the time with other types of animals.'

          In what world do we 'all the time' illegally and secretly import animal parts, forge documentation to hide their origin and species, and then combine them with other species to make large animals to hunt in captivity while deliberately and knowingly putting the local animal population at risk??

          It seems like in your last sentence you agree with me, but the first paragraph is spent pretending like this is just like selective breeding. It's a completely false equivalency unless you are zoomed so far in you are no longer capable or willing to see the bigger picture.

          If I came out and said:

          "Hey guys I'm going to smuggle in panda parts from Chine, pass them off as Dalmatians and forge their veterinary history to do this under the radar since it's illegal in all of the countries required to complete this scheme, and then I am going to combine them with the local grizzly and brown bears to make new hybrids -- I'm going to have 0 regard for what these impacts have on the local native bear population, and I'm specifically going to aim for unnaturally large hybrid creatures to be hunted in open air prisons." - would your response be 'sounds above board, that's mostly what we do all the time anyway'?

          That is what happened here, effectively. This is not 'what we do all the time' unless your aim is to ensure making a pedantic point takes precedence over any other factors unique to this particular case.

          If you are making some misguided point like 'hey this is just your every day selective breeding bro, why so mad?' you have lost the plot entirely. Your average day to day selective breeding operation breaks 0 of these laws, requires no conspiracy, and will not be a threat to the local populations. It requires no secrecy, no subterfuge, no forgeries, and presents no outwardly large danger to the native populations.

          The moment you have crossed the line into breaking these laws, it is by definition no longer in 'all the time' land -- you have entered Disney Villain Origin Story Land.

          EDIT: I don't know why I even bothered responding to this nonsense, this quote right here tells me you in fact only read the comments and have no idea what you are saying:

          "The article didn't say they killed the animal. If they had, then sure that would break endangered species laws."

          He did break the law. Regarding endangered species. In both countries. It is clearly laid out, whether he killed the animal or not. I regret wasting a moment trying to convey the point when you can't be bothered to read beyond the comments.

          Sure, we do this alllll the time. Anybody else trying to make pedantic points, go read what really happened first:

          https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/montana-man-pleads-guilty-fed...

          If you don't see him as a villain, you are the villain.

  • 082349872349872 2 days ago |
    O aries were last century (1996); E caballus are more recent (2003); M mulatta current news (2020); how long until H sapiens?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_cloning#Entering_the_com...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67987633

  • rindalir 2 days ago |
    Far more coherent write up of the initial charges: https://dailymontanan.com/2024/02/07/montana-man-charged-by-...

    Also note the charges of conspiracy. He and his co-conspirators knew what they were doing was illegal and took steps to falsify records.