• thih9 14 hours ago |
    The documentary may be new but the claim is not. The tweet embedded in the submission itself says:

    > there was a good write-up of this theory by @evan_worlds in 2021

    The detailed writeup from 2021 is easily accessible[1]; Len’s Wikipedia page mentions that theory too[2].

    [1]: https://evanhatch.medium.com/len-sassaman-and-satoshi-e483c8...

    [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Sassaman

    • dboreham 13 hours ago |
      The article doesn't mention this, but presumably analysis of the quite large and available codebases Len is known to have worked on could be done vs the Satoshi code? In the past I've tried to write code that doesn't look like I wrote it, but it's exhausting and probably won't defeat modern AI methods.
  • kevinmchugh 14 hours ago |
    This article is not great. You can see from a link that somebody else had previously named Sassaman, but there's no discussion of that. No discussion of why Hoback suspects Sassaman (although, probably too early for that). No mention of Hoback pretty convincingly naming Q in QAnon: Into the Storm.

    Also it uses "cyberpunk" in place of "cypherpunk" at one point

    • gomerspiles 14 hours ago |
      I'd categorize a cypherpunk as a very specific form a cyberpunk, so to me that's normal journalistic form to use both terms at some point in an article.
  • bitexploder 14 hours ago |
    This is not a new theory: https://news.bitcoin.com/the-many-facts-pointing-to-cypherpu...

    There are several good much older articles and posts digging into Sassaman and Finley and the sort of cyberpunk scene from that region of the country. Hard to search it up right now due to article spam about this documentary.

    • yuvadam 14 hours ago |
      This [1] is the canonical article you're looking for.

      [1] - https://evanhatch.medium.com/len-sassaman-and-satoshi-e483c8...

      • bitexploder 8 hours ago |
        Thanks. If you are reading and got this far, my link was probably a blog spam of the parent’s link and was the actual link I tried to find.
    • KomoD 14 hours ago |
      > due to article spam about this documentary.

      Such as this one by "Blockhead", all very low quality

  • miohtama 14 hours ago |
    I like the theory of Steve Jobs being Satoshi better:

    https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/currencies/apple-bi...

    • Garvi 14 hours ago |
      The guy that died of actually curable cancer because he believed in some alternative nonsense cure? I cannot think of a single other reason why Apple would be "hiding a bitcoin manifesto in Macs [...] fueling theories that Steve Jobs was Satoshi Nakamoto".
      • miohtama 8 hours ago |
        It was a joke, sir
        • hi-v-rocknroll 5 hours ago |
          How dare you use creative, nonlinear play in such a stuffy, formal crowd. Off with your head.
  • DrewStern 14 hours ago |
    Len isn't Satoshi. Len may have been employed by Satoshi at one point though.
    • toinewx 14 hours ago |
      this is a valid comment, there are counterpoints to the Len theory
      • DrewStern 14 hours ago |
        There's no reason to theorize about anything. Maybe HBO should've hunted through all of the crypto-related US patents filed in the 10-15-20 years before Bitcoin was released. Happy hunting!
        • Y_Y 10 hours ago |
          Oh so you know do you? But you're just going to leave a little breadcrumb?
          • DrewStern 9 hours ago |
            Asymmetric information about Bitcoin is worth up to +infinity dollars. Worthwhile to do your research.
            • Y_Y 8 hours ago |
              Ah, I see. But I guess you did have fun pretending.
              • DrewStern 7 hours ago |
                Hmm? You think it's impossible for someone to go through 10-20 years worth of crypto patents, only to find that one of them contains the exact system architecture that was released as Bitcoin? I guess it's too much work for lazy boys like you :)
                • Y_Y 7 hours ago |
                  Yes, it's impossible.
                  • DrewStern 7 hours ago |
                    "Yes, I'm too lazy to bother."
                    • Y_Y 5 hours ago |
                      Me too!
  • sandworm101 14 hours ago |
    And this will no doubt be good for bitcoin, especially in the long run. Pyramids never fall.
  • Bengalilol 14 hours ago |
    I don't get the "HBO claims BTC creator is Len". I saw that the internet is betting on him, but there's no evidence whatsoever that HBO will claim this. (And yes, I almost think Len's quite the right candidate, cf Evan "Leung" Hatch's article on Medium).
    • KomoD 14 hours ago |
      They'll probably just list the usual suspects and say it's likely one of them.
  • toinewx 14 hours ago |
    I read that Len was a heavy linux user with no Windows experience. Meanwhile, the first bitcoin implementation is done on Windows for Windows.

    Some people may remember better this aspect.

    • dist-epoch 14 hours ago |
      That would be exactly the kind of thing to do to obfuscate your identity.
      • dstroot 14 hours ago |
        That would be done because the user base of windows at the time dwarfed that of Linux. There are other better ways to cover your identity.
      • Waterluvian 14 hours ago |
        That seems possible. But this kind of explanation is also indistinguishable from “it’s just part of the conspiracy” type of logical track.
      • mrkramer 14 hours ago |
        You guys are overthinking or just having fun claiming such stuff. Satoshi covered his tracks at communication and distribution layer e.g. using fake name, using TOR, using anon email, anon host etc.

        I'm almost certain from everything I've seen about Bitcoin over the years that he wasn't a Linux developer who learnt Windows and C++ just to "obfuscate" his identity, he wasn't a non-native English speaker who learnt perfect English just to "obfuscate" his origin. He wasn't a professional cryptographer or even up to date with the latest cryptographic research according to Gavin Andresen[0]. It's most likely that he was indeed a native English speaker and a C++ Windows programmer who happened to be very passionate about digital cash payment solutions.

        [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uWigVKslYg

        • Bengalilol 13 hours ago |
          You're right. I am just wondering about the [email protected] email. Anyways, he must have it all covered.
          • mrkramer 13 hours ago |
            He always used TOR but he also used anon emails like [email protected] and [email protected].

            And maybe he didn't cover all tracks....how did he purchase bitcoin.org domain in August of 2008? Some say via cash in mail but I'm not so sure.

          • junto 7 hours ago |
            Gmx.com addresses (assuming no use of VPN or Tor exit node) excluded people in Germany, Austria and Switzerland at the time. You would always have been redirected to the country TLD options. GMX.com was a new spin off around 2009. There’s an interesting archived page here that discussed exactly this:

            http://www.emaildiscussions.com/showthread.php?t=57794

            Gmx is popular in Germany but I think it was always a bit niche outside Germany speaking countries it was relatively unheard of at the time.

            Notably, you might of heard of GMX when visiting Germany for the CCC convention. Both Len Sassaman and Dan Kaminsky presented at CCC in the same year (2007) at 24C3 for example. Dan presented for several years in a row and fiercely opposed Craig Wright’s claims to be Satoshi.

            Kaminsky, Finney and Sassaman all died rather young.

            • mrkramer 4 hours ago |
              >Gmx is popular in Germany but I think it was always a bit niche outside Germany speaking countries it was relatively unheard of at the time.

              He also used upload.ae to share draft of Bitcoin whitepaper[0] and upload.ae was literally unheard of. I didn't see anybody saying they used it or knowing who owned it. My assumption is that it was run by Satoshi's friend or somebody that he trusted.

              [0] https://www.bitcoin.com/satoshi-archive/emails/wei-dai/1/

        • raverbashing 10 hours ago |
          Opsec is never perfect. Let's leave it at that
    • dboreham 13 hours ago |
      I'm skeptical about this. Although I have been a Linux user since 1992, in my (fairly wide) experience Linux was not used in commercial settings until around 2000. Len was a professional developer working for SV companies during that period. So was I. I did have colleagues with no Windows experience, but they would have been Solaris users (or HPUX or...). Anyone writing code to be used by regular end-users would have had to have targeted Windows because there simply wasn't much of any installed base for any other OS at the time. Plus, according to the Medium article, Len worked on the PGP codebase. PGP ran on Windows (Win32, not sure about Win16).
    • FileSorter 11 hours ago |
      Yep, I make this point often.

      The only two that match up with the Windows piece of the puzzle are Dave Kleiman and Paul Le Roux. Of those two, Paul Le Roux had a interest in online gambling. Guess what the first Bitcoin release had references to.

      • sdeep27 7 hours ago |
        There’s one more man you are missing that fits better with the Windows piece that is more likely than those two. A man that was obsessed with anonymity (with no real picture of him on the net), an active writer still today, and with the coding and cryptography chops to have actually built it.
  • blisstonia 14 hours ago |
    Whatever you think of cryptocurrencies, the mystery is alluring and endlessly fascinating.
  • toinewx 14 hours ago |
    does the documentary bring new elements?
  • aa_is_op 14 hours ago |
    They're wrong. It's me
    • hi-v-rocknroll 5 hours ago |
      If I then said "it's me," that would be an obvious echo.

      Or if I instead said "it's not me", that would a contrarian echo.

      So I'm just going to say: it's probably not me, the last time I checked, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

  • imaginationra 14 hours ago |
    New HBO Documentary makes unfounded sensational claim to call attention to new mediocre documentary by HBO. *fixed it
    • szvsw 13 hours ago |
      It’s not really unfounded. Several commenters in this thread have already linked a well-researched piece from a few years ago which (convincingly) compiles all the evidence. So it seems blatantly wrong to say it’s unfounded…
  • drexlspivey 14 hours ago |
    For what it’s worth, this is the histogram of Satoshi’s bitcointalk post times in GMT https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F5...

    Assuming he didn’t post from work (for opsec reasons), this is most consistent with living/working in central/eastern europe/africa. Len Sassaman lived and worked in SV.

    • sam_lowry_ 13 hours ago |
      And Belgium
    • dboreham 13 hours ago |
      ...and Belgium apparently.
    • bitshiftfaced 8 hours ago |
      This article shows how his Tweet times match well with Satoshi's posts: https://evanhatch.medium.com/len-sassaman-and-satoshi-e483c8...
    • junto 6 hours ago |
      I always found it interesting to read the initial announcement and follow up emails on the Cryptography Mailing List by Satoshi in 2009.

      Hal Finney responds relatively quickly to Satoshi’s email, whilst the rest of the mailing list is embroiled in a hash algorithm discussion (TLS/MD5/SHA1/SHA256).

      Finney goes into some detail suggesting to me that he already knew beforehand what Bitcoin was about and how it could work and change the world. Of course parts of Bitcoin were based on his RPOW paper as well as building on much of the developments in digital cash up to then.

      Much of the feedback was negative (without it seems testing it) and based on the concept of digital cash in general and POW. Ironically it was also pointed out by another member that Bitcoin’s proof of work would require a lot of energy and have negative effects on the environment if successful. But most of the discussion and pro-side was promoted by both Finney and Satoshi. It almost seems “sock-puppet-esque”, or at a minimum Finney was already invested in the idea.

      https://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January...

  • worstspotgain 14 hours ago |
    Don't underestimate the possibility of Satoshi being an anti-West nation state. They tend to have brainpower lying around, and have an enormous interest in currency systems they cannot be excluded from (see e.g. Russia's Swift ban.)

    By retaining the large initial chunk, they keep the origin and rationale secret. They also retain the ability to cherrybomb it as needed. Lastly, if the origin was known, there might be a push to get everyone to agree to invalidate their holdings via a special case.

  • stefanos82 13 hours ago |
    To me the most appealing hypothesis was this comment https://web.archive.org/web/20240407013631/https://www.reddi...

    The commenter deleted it for whatever reason after a while...

    • jonahbenton 11 hours ago |
      Some very interesting and applicable work happening among Japanese scientists in the late 1990s. "Satoshi" is either dead or Japanese, no one else could keep quiet.
    • jeremyjh 9 hours ago |
      I agree it sounds really compelling that those three names are involved, but as mentioned they could just be influences that motivated that particular pseudonym. It would be hard for three people to keep such a secret.
  • irthomasthomas 13 hours ago |
    Then we can reasonably conclude that Len Sassaman was NOT Satoshi Nakamoto.

    BTW, Satoshi Nakamoto translated to English = Central Intelligence. (Family name first in formal Japanese.) Fun coincidence.

    • DrewStern 9 hours ago |
      Another funny coincidence is the email that Satoshi chose to use in the whitepaper: [email protected]. Observe that `SatoshiN' can be interpreted as `Sat(4 chars)N', or equivalently: `Sat4N'! Meaning each time you send someone sats, you're actually sending them little satans. :)

      What an excellent sense of humor Satoshi had.

  • ChrisArchitect 10 hours ago |
  • hi-v-rocknroll 5 hours ago |
    There is probably no single "Satoshi" individual, but that was their avatar "API boundary" with which to interface with the rest of the world. It was probably a scheme to financialize fintech (with an emphasis on tech) by 2-4 people who then held large amounts of the value they printed, making them covert decabillionaires able to escape press, kidnapping, pitch schemes, and taxation.