• data_spy 17 hours ago |
    "Could" is an interesting choice of word. I know researchers are cautious but that wording makes it meaningless.
    • ajkjk 17 hours ago |
      Quite. "5 minutes of exercise a day could raise blood pressure" is equally accurate.
      • Aurornis 16 hours ago |
        The headline is about a study that showed increased activity was correlated with decreases in blood pressure.

        So, no, it's not equally accurate to say the opposite is "equally accurate" unless we're playing pedantic games where we ignore the study and pretend it's all just meaningless words.

    • markerz 16 hours ago |
      Somewhat related is Betteridge's law of headlines:

      > Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no. It is based on the assumption that if the publishers were confident that the answer was yes, they would have presented it as an assertion; by presenting it as a question, they are not accountable for whether it is correct or not.

      I like to swap out any of these maybe-headlines with the exact opposite. It may help us, or it may not.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...

      From the article:

      > Just five minutes of activity a day was estimated to potentially reduce blood pressure, while replacing sedentary behaviours with 20-27 minutes of exercise per day, including uphill walking, stair-climbing, running and cycling, was also estimated to lead to a clinically meaningful reduction in blood pressure.

      Sounds like 5 minutes of exercise is where it has a statistically significant measurable impact in blood pressure, but 20-27 minutes is where it's a meaningful impact.

    • nuclearnice3 16 hours ago |
      Getting a little beyond the headline, we find they had people wear blood pressure monitors and accelerometers and concluded:

      > More time spent exercising or sleeping, relative to other behaviors, was associated with lower BP. An additional 5 minutes of exercise-like activity was associated with estimated reductions of –0.68 mm Hg (95% CI, –0.15, –1.21) SBP and –0.54 mm Hg (95% CI, –0.19, 0.89) DBP. Clinically meaningful improvements in SBP and DBP were estimated after 20 to 27 minutes and 10 to 15 minutes of reallocation of time in other behaviors into additional exercise. [1]

      [1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.124.0...

  • hertzian56 16 hours ago |
    some people just have a bad genetic soup and do exercise and diet and such and still have hbp well beyond the numbers designated as meaning "high" ultra high etc I didn't see any hard numbers of reduction in the article either, I've read that smoking raises bp by 5-10points which is largely marginal when you look at how inaccurate most bp readings are. I'm skeptical in this selling environment we live in that this isn't all just to sell drugs to people for their whole lives, these are the same people who want to decimate human populations btw
    • hombre_fatal 16 hours ago |
      5-10 points isn't marginal just because there is measurement variance to account for. And just because there's variance doesn't mean you can't fuzz out real numbers. It's like thinking you can stop a timing attack with sleep(random()).

      I'd be very skeptical of defending something like high blood pressure. People do the same with high cholesterol. It's a bunch of cope and wishful thinking that they're very different from everyone else who gets heart disease, our #1 killer.

      • mise_en_place 15 hours ago |
        Except those two don't really matter when predicting heart attack or stroke risk. HRV results, EKG results, labile hypertension; these are the indicators of whether or not you're at a risk for a heart attack or stroke. Getting a regular stress test is more important than blindly throwing anti-hypertensives at someone who may not need them in the first place.

        My smart ring detects if there are potential arrhythmia, same with the Apple Watch. Wearables are far more effective at determining heart attack risk than measuring blood pressure which fluctuates in correspondence with your circadian rhythm.

        • seadan83 11 hours ago |
          > Except those two don't really matter when predicting heart attack or stroke risk.

          Some cursory googling leads to recent research showing that they do: "According to new research, both high systolic and high diastolic blood pressure can lead to heart attack and stroke." [1]

          > HRV results

          I feel there is hype over HRV. Mainly a new thing that watches and other monitors can measure, and the number is being hyped. That put aside, the sources I've listened to have concluded that HRV is not really that valuable. Do you know of research showing otherwise? (grant it, some research is good here, for most things medecine and science there needs to be a lot of research. My impression there is a lot of research around blood pressure, thus I am not digging out more sources to show the counter-point).

          [1] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325861

      • stoperaticless 7 hours ago |
        There was a point in history where medics were not aware of concept of “normal body human temperature”.

        Then somebody took a sample of people, and measured their body temp and also asked if they were feeling well.

        Average among those who felt well was 36.88 °C (98.38 °F) and that was declared normal. (Then in geneal education books it was rounded+shifted and any variation found by the study forgotten)

        I found it quite interesting, because I knew normal temp value whole my life, but never even stopped to think where it came from. (I guess in passing thought I imagined that this value was fundamental constant of the universe derived from quantum physics)

        My conclusions:

        - Studies by necessity are performed on groups on people.

        - when it comes to healing an individual, medical knowledge is huge and complex network of rules of thumb (that work on average but there is no such thing as whole medicine field tailored for you)

        - there is no better way (listening to your doctor is a good idea)

  • eemil 16 hours ago |
    How much more evidence do we need, that exercise is good and any amount is better than none?
    • dartos 16 hours ago |
      More
    • yndoendo 16 hours ago |
      Until society has better work-life balance to allow for exercise while allowing for cost effect doctor visit to assign supportive and recognized improvement. Cheerleaders are more useful then people think.
      • jimjimjim 14 hours ago |
        Yes, Cheerleading is great exercise and the population would probably be healthier if everyone did it.
        • bobthepanda 14 hours ago |
          Cheerleading is actually incredibly dangerous with the number of catastrophic spinal or brain injuries exceeding the combined totals of all other female sports. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/magazine/cheerleading-jef...
          • jimjimjim 14 hours ago |
            Interesting article. I hadn't considered the injury aspect.
      • HuwFulcher 3 hours ago |
        This is a big problem in the UK I think. The idea of having a regular checkup with a doctor is unheard of and will get you some weird looks if you ask for it.

        The NHS doesn't seem (as an outsider looking in) to do well with preventative care. I firmly believe (without necessarily a lot of evidence) that if we focused more on healthy lifestyles and made them more cost effective for people the amount of money we plough into the NHS every year could be reduced drastically.

        • ninalanyon an hour ago |
          I suspect that regular check-ups for most people would simply regularly confirm what they already know: they need to lose weight, stop smoking, take more exercise, eat more fruit and veg.

          The UK now has a sugar tax on soft drinks that seems to be having a measurable positive effect. Whether it is a meaningful effect remains to be seen though:

          "The findings suggest that a year after the sugar tax was introduced, adults reduced their daily free sugar intake by about 10.9g, and a reduction in soft drinks accounted for over half of this reduction. This translates to a reduction of around 40 calories daily, which if maintained, and assuming no other changes, could lead to 1.5kg weight loss over a year."

          https://theconversation.com/how-do-we-know-the-uks-sugar-tax...

          So perhaps instead of exhorting people to do better the state should continue to try to make bad habits more expensive and good habits cheaper.

          • HuwFulcher 44 minutes ago |
            Yes a regular check-up wouldn't be the silver bullet but it would help expose larger problems under the surface which could be prevented with prescribed exercise, diet, etc.

            Ultimately it's down to the patient to put in the work but if the NHS focused more on creating community practices where these things could be more widely available then maybe we should see more meaningful change.

    • 0xcde4c3db 14 hours ago |
      With the caveat that I'm just a random non-expert on the internet who has nevertheless spent too much time reading scattered studies and scholarly opinion articles:

      We don't need "more" evidence exactly, but rather a better model of how the effects of exercise map to a given individual's physiology. Exercise is good overall, but it's also considerably overhyped due to a procession of weak and narrowly-applicable results being misconstrued as adding up to a massive pile of benefits that applies to the average person. In reality, the average person does not get anywhere close to the sum of all the touted benefits; they get some constellation of some of the benefits, while other outcomes are flat or even regress [1].

      So yes, "exercise is good" at a sufficient level of abstraction, but it's much harder to make the case that it's "good for [specific outcome] for [specific person]". Which is one reason that it's such an obnoxious trend for specific health complaints to be met with generic recommendations to exercise (or exercise more, or exercise differently).

      [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6818669/

      • brailsafe 13 hours ago |
        It seems a bit silly to me that in many circumstances it's just way more acceptable for exercise to be zero part of your life than the reverse, and that an argument needs to be made for geting more than even 30 mins worth of movement in a week. A culture of getting exercise by default seems like the way things should be, and the should be an affordance for those who can't rather than a luxurious escape from not having to.

        It's not as true in some places in some circles, but it's hard not to notice a difference when you temporarily visit the others.

        • 0xcde4c3db 11 hours ago |
          I think you're right overall, but a lot of that is an unexamined reaction to a built environment designed for motor vehicles, rather than being designed for humans. In suburban America, it too often doesn't occur to people to walk even modest distances, and when they decide to try, the experience can be scary considering that they're likely to interact with inattentive truck/SUV drivers while crossing intersections. If I just crossed the major intersection on the way to work without being paranoid about vehicle traffic, I'd probably be wheelchair-bound by now.
    • m3kw9 14 hours ago |
      The detail is in how regular are the exercises? Doing one hour at end of day after sitting 8 hr straight is worse then spreading it out.

      Of course doing 1 hour a day is better than nothing but it may not be effective

    • outworlder 14 hours ago |
      Well, I personally do not.

      I was about to be put in blood pressure medication. Then I started a gym, with a trainer. I noticed that, after the exercise, blood pressure would immediately drop and stay low for a few hours.

      Over time, the amount of time it spent lower than average increased, and it got lower and lower. It crossed 24h.

      Now? I can go to the gym Mon/Wed/Fri and it will remain low at all times. I did stop for a couple of weeks and it started creeping back up so it's not a 'cure', but functionally, as long as I keep it up, I have normal BP.

      I still have some weight to lose, that can further help things, most likely. And removing sugars also did help since I dropped a lot of liquid I was retaining.

      • physicles 13 hours ago |
        That’s amazing. How did you regularly monitor your blood pressure?
        • newaccount74 6 hours ago |
          Presumably with a blood pressure monitor?
        • ninalanyon an hour ago |
          I would guess that they did it using a blood pressure meter. That's how I do mine. They are cheap and reasonably accurate. Mine is from Omron, very similar to the one my doctor uses.
      • lofaszvanitt 12 hours ago |
        And it could skyrocket for example if you get into a stressful situation. And you wouldn't notice that you are over 180+. And one day you get a stroke and become paralyzed. Sure, do not take the medication. These exists since the 40s, there is nothing wrong with them.
        • LorenPechtel 11 hours ago |
          The point is that exercise can remove the underlying problem. And those who stay active enough don't develop it in the first place. Doc was amazed that I wasn't on any maintenance meds at 55. (Since then I've gone on blood pressure meds but if other health issues were resolved I don't think I would need them.)

          Anybody can spike to 180 in a sufficiently stressful situation. (And, personally, I would very much notice 180. Otherwise calm, I'll probably notice 140.)

        • andreareina 10 hours ago |
          Do you have a well-regarded source that recommends taking medication for blood pressure that is well-managed by exercise and diet?
        • ikrenji 7 hours ago |
          regular exercise + healthy diet / weight >> any medication you can take...
        • watwut 7 hours ago |
          The doctors will remove medication when the blood pressure goes down. You are literally supposed to take them only when the pressure is actually high.
      • looofooo0 6 hours ago |
        Great that you have the time to do it. I just cycle the children to kindergarden and then to work everyday. I am lucky to fit in one evening of sports every week. Plus owning no car saves lot of money. I guess I am quite lucky.
        • Ma8ee 5 hours ago |
          That is how I do it too. I don’t have time for much dedicated exercise with a full time job and two small kids, but cycling allows me to get a decent amount of exercise every day while saving both time and money. (And about time, if you work in a city and have less than a 10 km commute, cycling is almost always faster during rush hour. )
  • warner25 16 hours ago |
    Tabata et al.[1] found in the mid-1990s that just 2-4 minutes of "high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly." This was popularized as "Tabata training" 20+ years ago. I generally believe that brief bouts of exercise can be very beneficial, especially because they're easier to do consistently over the long-term vs. more time-consuming routines. For a decade now, I've just been running through my neighborhood most days for 20-30 minutes (with some sprints mixed in) and doing one or two maximal sets of pushups or pullups or barbell exercises at home on a weekly basis. I know a lot of people who got really into longer (e.g. 60-90 minute) gym routines but couldn't sustain it for more than a few months, and then stopped doing anything.

    [1] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/1996/10000/Effec...

    • pawelduda 15 hours ago |
      system > goals
      • el_benhameen 15 hours ago |
        Yep. I hated running when I made it an option. The mental struggle around whether to run today took up many brain cycles. Now, I run weekday mornings. Tired? Go run. Don’t feel great? Go run. Busy day ahead? Go run. Read an article about the optimal workout routine in mice aged 25-35? Go run. Routine sucks until it works, and then it’s great.
        • iamthemonster 14 hours ago |
          I don't know if it works for everyone, but for me I tell myself "you HAVE to go for a 1 minute run, then just see how you feel" and every time I just end up doing a decent run anyway.
          • aed 13 hours ago |
            Yes! I do something similar. I tell people I don’t have a running habit.

            I have a getting out the door in the morning with my running shoes on habit.

            Whatever happens after that is a bonus. The goal is to just step outside in the morning ready for a run.

        • Fire-Dragon-DoL 10 hours ago |
          I do something similar, I gave my body "no option" to skip a workout session. If I skip, I did 2 workout sessions the next day. I hated it, still hate it, but my body now sees it as work and it's committed to doing it.

          I still hate it though, but it doesn't take as much effort

        • watwut 7 hours ago |
          For me, this would lead to growing to hate running and stopping to do it entirely. Especially when life is stressful and overall sux, strong "irrational" rules are first I end up resented. Irrational as in "this adds one more time consuming chore to already sucky life".

          I got myself injuries from overtraining for not listening to body already twice. And I was not fit or competitive, anything like that. Just physically average person being more ambitious then is reasonable.

      • rurp 15 hours ago |
        Yeah I would say in general habits are the most powerful force in health. Finding an activity you enjoy is 1000x easier to stick with than anything that feels like a grind.

        Same thing for food. Trying to switch to a healthier but difficult diet wholesale fails essentially always. But what's relatively easy is finding a healthier alternative to one single thing you eat regularly, that you like just as well. This takes some experimenting, but is usually doable. Then once you've gotten used to the healthier option it becomes automatic.

        Then you can replace a single other food, and so on. I think that gradual and sustainable are the most important things to focus on for most people looking for general health improvement.

        • newaccount74 6 hours ago |
          I'd love a replacement for Salami and Bacon. I don't think there is a healthy alternative that comes close.
    • m3kw9 14 hours ago |
      Add travelling and dress/undress time and you got an extra 15-30 minutes tacked on
      • Fire-Dragon-DoL 10 hours ago |
        This is what everybody seems to overlook. Gym is usually 15 minutes, add shower and dressing/undressing, the total can easily add 1 hour. I'm so glad I have a gym under my building, because with 30 minutes workout I usually waste an additional 15 minutes (shower, change)
      • ozim 8 hours ago |
        That is why I got more equipment to home. I don’t have space for much but pull up bar and stationary bike is enough - for many that’s already a lot.

        Bike is getting dusty but pull up bar is great for “well I am passing by, let’s do 3 reps”.

    • blargey 14 hours ago |
      Nitpick: In Tabata's research, "high intensity" meant 170% of VO2max - definitely not easier to do consistently, even if you can voluntarily sustain 170% VO2max. Popular "HIIT" methodology is only loosely inspired by it, and the mechanisms for their merits would be largely unrelated to that of the original Tabata protocol's benefits (which was about demonstrating a way for elite athletes to push anaerobic capacity at the same time as aerobic, not shaving 50 minutes off their cardio routine).

      The growing research into how even a small amount of activity can confer significant benefits to the sedentary may be yet another mechanism entirely.

      I agree shorter workouts are much easier to stick to though, especially since I'm easily bored.

      • warner25 12 hours ago |
        Right. I once experimented with organizing my running workouts according to the original Tabata protocol, as closely as possible, for about six weeks[1]. I wasn't an elite athlete by any means, but I was a 21 year-old Army cadet in the top quartile of cadets in terms of fitness. I found that it's indeed difficult to strike a legitimate 100% effort, even when it's only for 20 seconds and only 5-10 times. My point is not that people should adopt the protocol as a sustainable, long-term routine; it's just that there's been evidence for a long time that short workouts can have disproportionate benefits in addition to being easier to program into day-to-day life.

        [1] The results on my running performance, specifically over two miles, weren't clear, by the way. I wasn't running my best times when I started the experiment, nor at the end of it. But at least I didn't get worse despite averaging only six miles per week. I've done much better on 15-25 miles per week with a wider variety of speed work.

        • seadan83 11 hours ago |
          HIIT or Tabata must not be done day-to-day, everyday. With no recovery days, there will be no gains. A 21 year old is able to recover like crazy, a good 9 hours of sleep might be enough to mostly recover. For others it would not work well and would lead to over-training. In overtraining, the 100% efforts will be 90% efforts, impact the immune system, generally just not good all round.

          For disproportionate benefits, one needs to define which benefits exactly. A max effort will burn a lot of calories quite quickly and potentially increase V02 max (which is highly correlated to overall longevity). Zone 2 training has become popular and has other benefits, notably increases 'fat max' threshold - which gives different benefits (specifically the ability to work harder for longer while still using fat as an energy source for the exercise).

          > I found that it's indeed difficult to strike a legitimate 100% effort, even when it's only for 20 seconds and only 5-10 times.

          This is essentially the point. At the end of Tabata, the last interval should be the last bit of energy you have in the tank. It should be entirely draining. Doing this routine daily will not allow recovery to then properly do the training well.

          FWIW, I heard it paraphrased as this: the body has essentially too modes, hard & easy. When going hard, it only matters how hard you go, not how long. When going easy, it only matters how long you go for, not how hard. At the same time, zone 2 training and HIIT/Tabata are not mutually exclusive in their benefits, but it's more which systems receive the most benefit while other systems in the body receive benefits but to a lesser degree.

          • warner25 10 hours ago |
            The original experiment was four days per week of the "exhaustive intermittent training" and a fifth day was 30 minutes of zone 2. That's what I followed. It does seem like that fifth day has been forgotten when people talk about Tabata. Like you said, "zone 2 training and HIIT/Tabata are not mutually exclusive," and I've gotten my best results when doing a few hours per week of zone 2 running with a dash of higher-speed intervals or repeats one day.

            Now that I'm quite a bit older, despite maintaining my body weight and two-mile running time since then, I'd probably get hurt if I repeated the experiment.

          • dspillett 4 hours ago |
            > With no recovery days, there will be no gains.

            That is true of any exercise regime with much intensity. For muscular activity: pushing towards anything like your limits technically causes lots of minor damage, which the body repairs back better. If you don't give yourself sufficient recovery time within your weekly routine you miss out on a lot of that benefit because the body's repair/improve systems don't have time to properly do their thing. This is one of the reasons¹ why overtraining injuries are a thing. In terms of cardio this still applies, the heart is a set of muscles. Mentally I think there is a similar effect, but pinning down a cause for this is much more hand-wavy and subjective compared to the far better understood² mechanisms of how the body repairs, regulates, and improves, physical structures.

            Some people seem to manage with minimal recovery time, but they are either lucky³, kidding themselves, or storing up issues ready for a big nasty surprise later.

            ----

            [1] Other similar reasons include damage & fatigue in parts of the body other than muscles, and sometimes just being tired to the point of getting form wrong and hurting yourself through that.

            [2] though still not entirely understood

            [3] I'm counting being young as being lucky here. I'm trying to get back into running and other regular exercise (after a period of illness, looking after family with medical issues, and general burn-out) and the biggest thing getting in the way of improving from here is that I'm now in my mid/late 40s rather than early 30s like last time I was at this level of conditioning!

      • fuzztester 8 hours ago |
        >I agree shorter workouts are much easier to stick to though, especially since I'm easily bored.

        Walking is one of the best mild exercises, if you can do it in a safe place, where you can't trip or fall into a hole or be mugged (or some other risk), because you can think while walking. So you can use the time to think about your work (if applicable, like for software people, at least in some cases), or your life, or anything else. You can also not think deliberately (although thoughts may come anyway), and just enjoy the walk.

        For example, I think about my side projects while walking, and have been surprised to find that I have sometime made good progress on some of them while doing so.

      • cenamus 6 hours ago |
        Walking up a flight of stairs briskly is way above VO2 max for the vast majority of people, yet doesn't feel "extreme"
        • 4gotunameagain 6 hours ago |
          > for the vast majority of people

          ..In the states. Ask people from Amsterdam or Berlin about running out of breath from stairs.

          I even remember seeing a study that claimed that people who lived in higher floors with no elevator had in average better cardiovascular health, an easy peasy way to nudge people into the right direction.

          • _glass 4 hours ago |
            I am going to work by bike, and in the beginning, I could still get to zone 2. Now this is really hard to achieve. It becomes really hard to push yourself enough.
    • drowsspa 13 hours ago |
      HIIT is and feels awesome, but no way a sedentary person can start straight with that.
      • Fire-Dragon-DoL 10 hours ago |
        Why not? HIIT is based on that person's body. They will hit their bpm much faster than a trained person. I started with HIIT last year in august (2023),reaching 181 bpm max and averaging 176 (I'm 35). Now, 1.5 years later, I do the same exercise (with a lot more strength) and hit 156 bpm average, 176 max. If I halt for 10 seconds (phone ringing), my bpm plummets (150 or even 148) and it's hard to bring back. On top of that, I have to be more careful not injuring myself: my muscles are a lot stronger, so if I use all my strength in an attempt of pushing my bpm, I can hurt my body.

        I feel terrible with HIIT either way, which means it does work

        • drowsspa 6 hours ago |
          Were you completely sedentary before starting?

          And I mean, psychologically, the feeling of nearly dying would have been enough to scare me off any exercising had I started with that. Being able to push yourself physically, and enjoying it, is a skill that needs to be learned gradually for most people.

    • mancerayder 11 hours ago |
      Tabata makes you want to vomit if you don't have at least a moderate level of fitness. Even if it's great conditioning. So here's the problem.

      We go on about what's optimal from a raw time perspective, but time slows subjectively when you suffer. So people who don't conceptualize themselves as athletic, they may have insecurities if not outright skepticism, aren't going to last.

      You can make a culty cultural glue to get habits to stick (because fitness is all about habits). You can do CrossFit, the social and positive aspects. That encouragement can bring habit and a change of self perception.

      But if you're just a self-driven type, and you're dipping your toes in the water, my observations are that whatever is fun (an individual experience) is what you'll be creating a habit with, and time foes quickly. So explore a brunch of things until you encounter fun. Tennis, running club, weightlifting club. Etc.

      So my point is that fitness is a problem around how people experience exercise and training, instead of what's optimal in a paper or in terms what's efficient in terms of time.

      Was this prematurely dismissive? Maybe, I'm going by the comments.

      • acosmism 7 hours ago |
        this is true. at some point i was so unfit that i probably was going to die if i continued eating and being as sedentary as i was. a single game of soccer changed my life. it was fun to chase a ball around and i got addicted to this "after glow" effect.
      • prirun 18 minutes ago |
        > So people who don't conceptualize themselves as athletic, they may have insecurities if not outright skepticism, aren't going to last

        I have always been thin and tried to start workouts on my own several times over many years, and never could do it, mostly because I didn't know what I was doing. Hiring a personal trainer, if you can afford it, is a great way to get over this hump. I quit after a couple of years and workout on my own now, but couldn't have done it without the trainer.

    • hilux 10 hours ago |
      According to the link you shared, the Tabata research involved a TINY number of athletic, male, Japanese undergrads. I remember being stunned when I first looked it up years ago.

      It's not at all obvious that their findings - which became part of Crossfit "religion" - generalize to both sexes, all fitness levels, and all ages.

    • safety1st 10 hours ago |
      I think for the average person, looking too carefully at individual studies is failing to see the forest for the trees.

      Basically any time we do a study which asks "Is doing a bit more exercise better for you?" the answer is yes. Like doing a single walk around the block every week is better than doing none. Even five minutes of exercise is better than zero. But obviously these have much less positive impact than several hours of moderate to intense exercise weekly. There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about.

      So in terms of individual decision making things are really simple. Are you not fit? Do you feel bad? Are your basic markers for this looking bad (blood pressure, weight etc.)? Do more exercise. Do what you enjoy, do it safely, and do as much of it as you can as intensely as is reasonable, and the numbers will go in the right direction. This will put you way ahead of the average American in terms of fitness, it's not until a higher level that things really start to get technical.

      • mcdeltat 9 hours ago |
        While it's true that doing any amount more exercise is beneficial to the average person, they may not necessarily know/feel it. As we so often see super fit people in the media, it's easy to think we need to do hours of exercise daily for any benefit. Easy to then think "what's the point? I'll never be super fit" and do nothing. Recinforcing the narrative (including publication of studies) that no, even a small amount of execise is quite beneficial, is encouraging for the average person.
        • f1shy 7 hours ago |
          I think is exactly what the comment addresses (at least how I understood it). Just do whatever makes you happy, but move! Is not about being a model, it is about being heathier than moving less.
        • ijidak 7 hours ago |
          Shannon Sharpe works out at my gym.

          Huge guy. Former NFL tight-end. Still very fit.

          I notice he only does 1 hour at the gym and then he leaves.

          Granted, this is very low quality anecdata.

          But seeing how brief his workout is opened my eyes to the benefit of consistency over volume.

          • yourusername 5 hours ago |
            Dorian Yates (former mister Olympia) claimed he trained 4 times a week for 45 minutes while preparing for the contest. But very intense training.
            • gloflo 4 hours ago |
              He also sells training so there is reason to doubt anything he says about the topic.
              • hunter-gatherer an hour ago |
                Eh... I disagree. I've not bought his training but I have been actively fit since I was in highschool and have bought training before. There is value is getting regimens and techniques from really experienced athletes.

                Edit: Also, I've been on a 4 day Bukgarian split before and had very good results. If you want proof there is a 30 minute routine that can kick your ass I recommend looking up Ryan Humiston's take on it.

          • safety1st 3 hours ago |
            I wish someone had told me this: once you put muscle on your frame it tends to stick around.

            If you bulk up and turn into Hercules over the course of a few years you can scale back your training volume dramatically and as long as you keep your diet right, you will continue to be a jacked and cut dude for many many years.

            I'm sure this gets less true as you age but it seems to apply to me in my 40s.

            Maintenance is just way easier than the initial buildup.

            I discovered this pretty much on accident when I scaled back the volume and intensity of my own training and noticed... Huh would you look at that... Very little changed.

            Like on some level, it would be harder to return to the state of roly poly schlub that I was once in, than to continue being the fairly fit person I am now. I just autopilot twice a week to the gym after work, zone out and listen to podcasts for an hour while doing some pretty moderate intensity lifts, and the body stays in pretty decent shape. I barely break a sweat now compared to the first year or two.

        • renegade-otter 6 hours ago |
          I do wonder how many people do not take care of the basics and instead go for anti-depressants and Ozempic. I get it if you tried everything, but how many do?

          When I stop compulsively eating and drinking, when I look for every opportunity to do something as an exercise, I snap out of my [self-diagnosed] depression and malaise in a few days, and feel great.

          The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business".

          • bobthepanda 6 hours ago |
            ? Doctors tell people to diet and exercise all the time.

            The problem is that the doctor has very little to offer other than to tell people to do that, and the vast majority of people will nod and continue doing whatever they were doing.

          • mr_mitm 5 hours ago |
            This really downplays the impact of clinical depression. It's often not solved by exercising alone, and if you talk to a psychologist about this, the first thing they do is recommend exercising or at least goeing for walks as an immediate measure before potentially therapy or medication starts.

            When I went to a doctor complaining about low energy, literally the first question was about weight gain and exercising, so I'm not sure where your comment about the pills comes from.

            • renegade-otter 5 hours ago |
              My comment comes from the seeming ease of procuring these drugs - with people going on Ozempic out of pure vanity.
              • toofy 18 minutes ago |
                you did end your comment with:

                > The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business"

                which makes it appear as even with your “self-diagnoses” you’re under the impression that doctors rarely ask about exercise and diet and then move forward from there. which is the exact opposite of what i’ve seen from a college roommate, a close friend, and an ex who saw multiple different doctors, and each of those doctors first insisted on:

                a) find a hobby, dive into it. and,

                b) exercise multiple times per week. and,

                c) get a nutritionist. and

                d) only after those things showed little results would they prescribe SSRIs or other long term drugs.

                i promise this isn’t coming down on you, i promise, but, we seem to have a massive trend of confidently wrong people implying they’re smarter than actual doctors or (just about any other subject it seems), they just guess what doctors do and don’t do. and even far more concerning is how often these confidently wrong people issue blanket advice to randoms online as if they’re at all qualified and as if they know any of the important intricate details of the randoms they’re advising.

                we desperately need to get back to a place where people can confidently say “i don’t know” again. we’re (including myself) too desperate to chime in even if we’re woefully ill equipped.

                maybe every secondary-university semester everyone should get a refresher session on the most basic ass socrates/plato: the smartest person is the one who knows, understands, and admits about how much they are ignorant.

          • dspillett 4 hours ago |
            > The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business".

            I'm guessing you are in the US? There is a lot of medical advice here (UK, and Europe more widely) which is essentially “eat better and move around more”. A great many don't listen to that, but it is definitely said.

            > When I stop compulsively eating and drinking [and do some] exercise

            This is a key issue: not what doctors are prescribing but what people do to self-medicate. The harmful side of self-care when “a bit of what you like does you good” becomes overconsumption and underactivity. It can be even worse for those of us with significant mental issues over the norm (bit of a bipolar pillock myself, got a piece of paper saying so & everything, and like you describe with depression I find the right exercise, while not at all a panacea, helps regulate my mind quite a lot as well as stopping my body falling apart).

          • orthoxerox 2 hours ago |
            > The doctors rarely tell you to eat your salads. "Here is a pill, thank you for your business".

            That's because advice like this is useless. Everyone knows they should eat more vegetables, you need someone to guide you through habit formation, which is not what the doctors are for.

          • petercooper 2 hours ago |
            I do wonder how many people do not take care of the basics and instead go for anti-depressants and Ozempic.

            Bear in mind that for many people therapies like SSRIs and weight loss medications (or even counselling/therapy) can get them into the right mental and physical place to start doing more exercise and eat better.

            It's easy to advise people to eat well and exercise, but it can be a bit like telling a miserable person with a migraine to smile more. Improve the underlying issue artifically, then they can have a better chance of starting the natural things. Doctors do need to do both, though, merely handing out medications without encouraging the next step is irresponsible IMO.

            • hunter-gatherer 2 hours ago |
              I've never suffered from a mental illness, so I'm genuinely curious; is exercise not ever used as a prescription for depression? Physical therapy is a thing, so it can be a prescription in some cases, no?
              • petercooper 35 minutes ago |
                Oh, it absolutely is, and from what I've read, it can work really well! It's just not necessarily a 'one size fits all' which is what makes medicine complicated and good doctors valuable.

                If someone's hit the point where they're thinking "I'd rather be dead than leave the house", improving their mental health by any means necessary should be the first step. But not everyone should be given pills as the first option and many doctors are guilty of such laziness (over prescription of opioids and antibiotics are other examples of this – some patients urgently need them, most don't).

      • f1shy 7 hours ago |
        Not only what you say is objectively truth, it's motivating! Just start moving your ass!

        Would only change "This will put you way ahead of the average American in terms of fitness, it's not until a higher level that things really start to get technical." striking out "American", just because it works everywhere.

      • kd5bjo 3 hours ago |
        > There are diminishing returns but they don't really kick in until you're already pretty fit, they are only really a concern that athletes need to think about.

        Unfortunately, it's people at both ends of the fitness curve that have to be careful about increased exercise frequency/intensity. On the less-fit side, the primary concern is accumulating minor injuries that reduce capacity for exercise even further leading into a downward spiral.

        • port19 2 hours ago |
          Thats why we recommend obese people to walk first, even if they think they would enjoy running.
    • PUSH_AX 5 hours ago |
      I remember reading something about Tabata/HIIT being something you don't want to do every day, due to the high intensity and strain on your CNS. Is this not the thinking anymore?
  • ibzsy 16 hours ago |
    Exercise has changed my life for the better. I'm not a fit-geek but 20 minutes of light running really helps me clear my head
  • n0id34 15 hours ago |
    GASP, exercise is good!? No way. The hard part is finding time and having the motivation. Particularly the latter. There's constantly about 49 other things that feel like they need doing more than purposely exercising and wearing myself out even more than I'm already worn out.
    • TuringTourist 15 hours ago |
      possibly counter to intuition, I find that since I have started to religiously use my stationary bike in the morning, I have a lot more energy for the day, not less. I suppose if you're butting up against caloric/nutrient limits you might suffer. I personally find exercise clarifies my thoughts and improves my mood, even if its the last thing I want to do when I do it.
      • deberon 15 hours ago |
        The mind-body connection is quite real. Improving your physical state will almost certainly have a non-zero improvement on your mental state. Exercising can really help you make sense of all those other things you have going on. Not to mention that being in shape and strong makes every physical thing you do easier.
    • hombre_fatal 15 hours ago |
      Figure out how to get entertainment in the form of audio, like Youtube debates or audiobooks, so then exercise is simply multitasking.
      • nox101 15 hours ago |
        Youtube debates sound like a way to raise blood pressure immensely
        • bluGill 13 hours ago |
          There is trump vs harris; or vi vs emacs. One will raise blood pressure more than the other.
          • BeetleB 8 hours ago |
            Especially when you discover that Trump uses Emacs, and Harris uses vi. No wonder she lost the election. Trump simply typed M-x win-election.
      • criddell 2 hours ago |
        I'd recommend trying without the entertainment too. Boredom can be good, letting your mind wander can be fun, or simply focusing on the current task and your body's experience can improve the experience.
    • barbs 15 hours ago |
      If you live in an area with decent infrastructure, cycling to and from work is a great way to get exercise in without sacrificing much time (in some cases you even save time)
      • Gigachad 14 hours ago |
        It actually shocks me that someone could manage to regularly go a day without even exercising for 5 minutes.

        The car centric lifestyle seems like such a prison.

    • littlekey 14 hours ago |
      >The hard part is finding time and having the motivation.

      Motivation certainly, but if we accept the results of the study, you really don't think you can find 5 minutes of time in your day to walk up some stairs or do some jump rope?

    • dvsfish 14 hours ago |
      The greatest misconception about exercise is this "if you're tired your best course of action would be to abstain from the thing that will make you more tired" train of thought. Exercise doesn't always work like this. Yes you'll have bad days, but you'll find yourself more energised most of the time and mentally more at peace. Thinking it will make you more tired can often be just a preconception.

      It's like that classic sedentary worker ailment of the sore back. Many people take this as a sign to rest more, but these types of issues are often caused by weak musculature and the best thing to do is start resistance training. Obviously not a blanket solution, but one that definitely seems overlooked.

      • seadan83 11 hours ago |
        > best thing to do is start resistance training.

        Doing so very carefully!

        I will agree though. Before going on a long cross-state bike trip, I had some back issues and was cramming in work (too much sitting). I went out with lower back pain, resolved itself after a few days of riding for most of the day.

        I very much agree that counter-intuitive behavior is often what is called for. The exercise or sedentary habits are habits. They really become normal one way or the other quite quickly.

      • BeetleB 8 hours ago |
        > Exercise doesn't always work like this. Yes you'll have bad days, but you'll find yourself more energised most of the time and mentally more at peace.

        Is there anything that will convince you this isn't true for all (perhaps not even most) people?

        The right type of exercise matters. I've often gone on bouts of cardio on a treadmill for months at a time (multiple times a week - at least 30 minutes each session). It never ceased to suck.

        I can do a hike and never feel bad. But a treadmill or cycling device? Always feels bad. I hope it benefits me in the long run, because it definitely reduces the quality of life on days I do it.

        My only real hope is to find some other kind of cardio that doesn't annoy as much.

        • seanmcdirmid 8 hours ago |
          BeatSaber maybe? Something addictive is better even if it is less effective. I also do FitXR, which is more effective, but requires more of a grinding mindset so I often mix it with BeatSaber, which doesn’t grind.

          I would experiment at least, there are things. A good instructor in an aerobics class can also help, although I find that too hit or miss to be sustainable.

          • yourusername 5 hours ago |
            Thrill of the fight is such a great game for excercise. You want to knock down your opponent so you can get really into it.
        • zelos 5 hours ago |
          Exactly. It always seems weird to me that "going to the gym" is virtually synonymous with getting some exercise when the gym is the most boring place to do exercise.
    • gcanyon 12 hours ago |
      > The hard part is finding time and having the motivation.

      As I've said here several times: the best exercise is the one you'll stick with over the long haul.

      Put another way: anything you'll still be doing in 2026 is better than anything else you'll quit before next Memorial Day.

      • seadan83 11 hours ago |
        Agree. Anything that is done over the course of one week or one month is pretty meaningless. When starting training, the only thing a person needs to do is to do anything. Just get out there, build consistency. That is the very first goal. Timings, intervals, HR monitor, those are all well past the point of consistency. The other side of the coin, the accumulation of training/activity over long time is what matters. Those that work on larger projects learn this, some things you can't just cram the night before. It requires hundreds of hours of sedentary or active living, hundreds of meals, for effects of a good or a bad diet (or active/sedentary lifestyle) to be realized.
  • taeric 15 hours ago |
    This could get far more mileage with people by saying "activity" instead of "exercise." It is amazing how much people can get out of a simple walk around the house. Make it out and around the neighborhood, and you start getting absurdly good results.
    • artursapek 15 hours ago |
      Is this really a high bar these days?
      • taeric 14 hours ago |
        Uh, yeah? Note that I'm not claiming people don't do any walking at all. But a lot of people that would easily do another walk around the house before settling down to watch TV will balk at exercise.
    • petercooper 2 hours ago |
      Agreed. I've always struggled with intense structured exercise. Instead I walk quickly, park at the far end of lots, run up the stairs instead of the elevator, do some jumping jacks while waiting for the microwave, and lots of small things like that and it seems to work. You can get a lot of exercise minutes and increased heart rate out of doing routine activities with gusto. Admittedly, it's not so good for building muscle, though.
  • fouc 15 hours ago |
    FYI, the absolute fastest way to lower blood pressure is to lose weight if you are obese.

    Rule of thumb is that your systolic blood pressure will drop by 1 mmHg per 1 lb of weight loss, eventually slowing down to 1 mmHg per 2 lbs of weight loss as you get back down to more normal blood pressure range / weight range.

    Source: went from 160/110 to 120/90 in several months by dropping 60 lbs.

    • ipnon 14 hours ago |
      I love hearing stories like this, well done.
    • kbelder 14 hours ago |
      I've had similar results with blood pressure, although a smaller weight loss (about 30 lbs) and smaller decrease. Another 10-20 pounds to go.

      For what it's worth, I'm on a intermittent fast. I only eat between 5pm to 10pm, with no real restrictions on what I eat. I was surprised how quickly weight fell away, and how easy a diet it was to stick to. 'Eat after work' was a simple behavior to adapt to.

      People are very individual, and this might not work for a lot of people, but it's doing great for me. I didn't want to spend the rest of my life on blood-pressure drugs.

      • renegade-otter 6 hours ago |
        Isn't that an extreme version of IF?

        I think the usual window is 8 hours, so people should first try eating between lunch and dinner, say 12PM-8PM.

        A lot of people eat breakfast out of habit, and I found that once I got older, I just stopped needing it. It made me bloated and sluggish. You just don't need that many calories per day when you stop growing or not working in construction.

        • fouc an hour ago |
          IF typically starts at 16/8 but 20/4 or 23/1 (One meal a day) variations seem pretty common too. A 5 hour window is not bad because that still gives room to get in 2 meals.
    • technothrasher 14 hours ago |
      Yep, I found weight loss was pretty much the only thing that would drop my blood pressure. Though it didn't drop linearly like you're describing. From 215lb to 180lbs, it didn't really change much at all. Once I got down below 180lbs, it quickly dropped (from ~150/90 to ~120/80) and stayed there. When I slacked off my good eating habits and went back above 180lbs, blood pressure shot right back up to ~150/90. I'm back down again to about 172lbs and clearly get it now, I have to stay here.
      • fouc an hour ago |
        Interesting! I wasn't really thinking it was linear, but your example does highlight the fact there's probably a few steady states that the body prefers to operate at.
    • LinuxBender 11 hours ago |
      This is true but not the only cause of high blood pressure. It may be worth adding that many people about 1 in 200 have thyroid issues that also raise heart rate and thus BP. There are other causes as well, too many to list. It took me a long time to find some of my causes after losing weight.
    • hippich 8 hours ago |
      While it does appear to work for many, I personally lost about 20% weight or 40lbs, with seemingly zero effect on blood pressure. I do measure it around the same time of the day, same place, nearly same condition... So it is not about inconsistencies of measurement - I had elevated blood pressure for as long as I remember. My BP does respond to exercise (or more likely to body heating up) for short period of time, and to meds, but meds make it very inconvenient since I have to plan it around my day - having meds and working on something outside in Texas heat = too low BP.
    • usr1106 6 hours ago |
      I don't deny that reducing overweight is very likely to improve your health, certainly for the obese.

      However, high blood pressure and weight are not as simple as one might think.

      My friend has had problems with blood pressure since his 40s, but he is not overweight at all and has never been. He exercises at least weekly.

      I am 60, at least 15 kgs overweight for the last 20 years (not obese), but my blood pressure is very good. I have always excercised daily, often for 1 - 2 hours, but at low intensity. Nowadays even lower because I have knee problems. Probably lower weight would have helped with those.

    • whazor 3 hours ago |
      Achieving five minutes of daily exercise is easier than dropping 60 lbs.
    • whazor 3 hours ago |
      Achieving five minutes of daily exercise is easier than dropping 60 lbs. Nice work though
      • fouc an hour ago |
        I relied heavily on extended water fasting (3-7 day fasts). It's both easy and hard, easy in the sense it doesn't take any extra work to lose weight, but hard in terms of dealing with cravings/discomfort.
  • cutler 14 hours ago |
    For anyone over 60 I recommend 3 sets of full squats before bed for a good night's sleep and strength for hill walking and climbing stairs.
    • clort 8 hours ago |
      I'm not over 60, yet, and I feel there are likely many, myself included, who don't know what a "set of full squats" is, exactly.. when you recommend such things could you at least say what that is thanks?
      • reportgunner 4 hours ago |
        A "set" probably refers to 5 or more repetitions per set, so 3 sets are 3*5+ repetitions of squats. A "full" squat probably means to go so low that your butt goes below your knees.
  • fsckboy 13 hours ago |
    the research metric I'm interested in is "if you exercise for 5 minutes, you should expect to live 1 minute longer" and I would look at that and say "so I lost 4 mins? no thanks"

    but if it ever comes out with a surplus, I'll turn on a dime (and turning on a dime for 5 minutes a day probably lowers blood pressure)

    • comrh 12 hours ago |
      You need to consider quality of life too. Maybe you only gain one minute, but you'll age much better with a habit of exercise and stretching.
      • fsckboy 9 hours ago |
        your point gets made over and over and over, I get it, health nuts have a list of things that they think are healthy.

        My point, that there's a cost to all this that might not get repaid, is a fresh take that you never see unless you've read one of my other comments making the point.

        • guerrilla 6 hours ago |
          > that might not get repaid

          This is the part that we know is false. The benefits outweight the costs. But fine, suffer if you want.

        • kevmo314 6 hours ago |
          This research exists. This study [1] suggests a 2.7 year increase in life expectancy. Doing some math, 5 minutes per day for 80 years is around 0.2 years.

          So sure I might have gone fishing a bit to respond to a random HN comment but the data is out there and you have a brain.

          [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9794712/

        • strken 5 hours ago |
          I really don't think "walk briskly for five minutes a day" is a health nut thing. That sounds more like the advice your doctor gives you when she knows you won't do anything a health nut says.
        • BoringTimesGang 4 hours ago |
          If you are waiting for studies that perfectly model every variable before you spend 5 minutes walking, you are unlikely to be satisfied within your rapidly decreasing lifespan.
    • meiraleal 8 minutes ago |
      it would be more like: if you exercise for 5 minutes, you should expect to live 1 day longer
  • agumonkey 11 hours ago |
    NHS cardiac rehab videos on YouTube are quite good too. More like 20 min though.
  • lm28469 10 hours ago |
    At that point if you don't walk 10k+ steps a day nor lift weight every other day you can't say you care about your long term health.
  • lambdaba 6 hours ago |
    Magnesium will lower your blood pressure, just take magnesium. The crazy thing is the diuretics that are prescribed to lower blood pressure cause magnesium deficiency.
  • antics9 6 hours ago |
    I have a neighbour who's in his 60s. Blood pressure was of the charts while in his 40s. The guy was cycling to work everyday (and thought that was enough exercise) and was living a stressful family and work life.

    Doctor never prescribed any drugs but told him that he had to start exercising. Signed up for judo class. He couldn't believe the amount of exercise he got from the warm up alone. Been doing judo 3 days a week for 20 years now. Haven't had any heart or blood pressure issues since.

    • randunel 5 hours ago |
      And here I was, thinking my daily cycling would be enough. It's not. I've been cycling all of my life, cycling daily and I'm still categorised as obese according to all weight to height ratios.

      My long term avg blood pressure varies with weight. It's lower when I lose weight, higher when I gain weight.

      I guess generalising health advice isn't necessarily useful. Health advice should be tailored to individuals, instead.

      • da-x 2 hours ago |
        There's no way around getting having the nutrition part figured out too, meaning you need to stop eating like crazy. Saying this from a personal account, where I went down from 20% body fat to 13% in just 3 months and saw various health metrics improving.
    • havblue 4 hours ago |
      It sounds like diet might have worked in this case.
  • amai 3 hours ago |
  • amai 3 hours ago |
    I thought blood pressure is at first order an effect caused by too much sodium.
  • amadeuspagel 3 hours ago |
    But my blood pressure is already too low, though I barely exercise.