Sega is delisting 60 classic games from Steam, so now's the time to grab them
80 points by mariuz 9 hours ago | 53 comments
  • jm4 8 hours ago |
    Maybe a controversial opinion, but screw them for delisting games. Why would I buy these games when they obviously have no interest in selling them? To me, this is a license to go download the ROMs.
    • tertle950 7 hours ago |
      Piracy is the one true frontier for games preservation. If it's not on Steam or GOG, it may be the only feasible way to experience a game.

      I believe "abandonware" is the correct term

      • sqeaky 6 hours ago |
        And because Valve made it clear that purchasing doesn't provide ownership then piracy can't be theft.
        • snoman 5 hours ago |
          I’m sure a judge will agree with you.
          • ffsm8 4 hours ago |
            I'm sure pretty much every judge would?

            It's copyright infringement, not theft. The media industries just want to guilt trip consumers into thinking it's theft, but it's not. Neither legally nor actually.

    • goosedragons 6 hours ago |
      Getting most of those games on Steam literally gives you the ROMs. DRM free and usable in any emulator.

      It's likely that at least for the Sega Genesis games Sega will throw out a new collection. The current one is pretty old and has issues, especially with latency.

      • echelon_musk 6 hours ago |
        While this comment is well intentioned, you do not own the ROMs. Using the example of the SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics [0] Steam listing the EULA states:

        > THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD.

        > 3. NO RIGHT TO OWNERSHIP YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP

        If you look at the Steam store page there are numerous reviews from people who bought the collection only to have Sega remove some of the ROMs from the collection making it impossible to play these games that you paid for.

        [0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and...

        • goosedragons 5 hours ago |
          Yes, technically they are licensed. But what software is owned and not licensed? This is not new. Unlike most collections the ROMs here are out in open and easy to access.

          The reviews here are complaining about Sega delisting the collection. People that already have it will still be able to play them and redownload them off Steam. They have already delisted some of them (e.g., Sonic 3) and they're still available to those that got them before they were removed.

        • lmm 5 hours ago |
          > While this comment is well intentioned, you do not own the ROMs.

          Well, maybe. Sega might claim that they have only licensed them and you don't own them; a court might disagree, given the big "buy" button and the consideration paid for them.

          • citruspi 5 hours ago |
            > Sega might claim that they have only licensed them and you don't own them; a court might disagree, given the big "buy" button and the consideration paid for them.

            I'd really like to believe that is the case, but I think we've already seen that is generally not true based on other digital marketplaces (e.g. Kindle books, iTunes media, etc.)

            But specifically regarding Steam... this was just last month[0][1]

            > Valve is now explicitly disclosing that you don’t own the games you buy from its Steam online store. The company has added a note on the payment checkout screen stating that “a purchase of a digital product grants a license for the product on Steam,” as reported earlier by Engadget.

            >

            > ...

            >

            > Why? Probably, a new law. California has a law going into effect next year that’ll require digital storefronts like Valve’s Steam platform to clearly say that you’re only purchasing a license for your digital media because some companies like Ubisoft and PlayStation were removing digital purchases from users’ libraries, keeping them from playing games like The Crew or watching their old Discovery shows.

            [0] https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/11/24267864/steam-buy-purch...

            [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41809193

            • lmm 2 hours ago |
              That sort of case is precisely why I think someone might be able to make that kind of argument, especially in more consumer-friendly jurisdictions.
    • downrightmike 5 hours ago |
      Steam only gives you a license, you don't own anything
      • stateoff 5 hours ago |
        Maybe, but SEGA seems to muddy their own case as their official support FAQ section [1] states: "Will I still be able to play the SEGA Classics games? Absolutely! All SEGA Classics games and bundles you own will remain in your library, ready to be downloaded and played at any time."

        Note the "you own" here that is in dispute with the Steam user agreement.

        [1] https://support.sega.com/hc/en-gb/articles/29776767664145-SE...

  • keyle 8 hours ago |

         But after that, for reasons that Sega does not make explicit, they will be "delisted and unavailable."
    I really don't understand this move. The hard work is putting the games on Steam and making sure they work. Assets, testing, integration. Why take them away?

    Anyway I'll never use Steam to buy a game anymore anyway, because you're only really buying a license to rent a game.

    • chupchap 8 hours ago |
      > Anyway I'll never use Steam to buy a game anymore anyway, because you're only really buying a license to rent a game.

      Hasn't that always been the case for all games purchase for a while now?

      • lxgr 8 hours ago |
        I believe GOG still sells a lot of things DRM free.
        • jakebasile 7 hours ago |
          They are DRM free, but you are still only buying a license to the game which can likely be revoked under the terms of that agreement.
          • favorited 7 hours ago |
            But GOG offers offline executable installers, so from a practical perspective even if your license was revoked, they'd have no way of preventing you from playing the game (assuming that you had downloaded the installer, of course).

            The even joked about it after Steam added the checkout banner: https://x.com/GOGcom/status/1844752098145038435

          • alpaca128 6 hours ago |
            The license doesn't matter if you can have the DRM-free installer on your harddrive forever. They sold it to me (and called it a "purchase"), I downloaded it, who cares about the license, it's mine now.
        • dvngnt_ 7 hours ago |
          so does steam. it depends on the publisher
          • lxgr 6 hours ago |
            But is there a way to actually back up an installer (or the installed game) in a way that lets you run it on a different computer after, say, your Steam account has been closed for whatever reason?

            On macOS an app bundle is usually self-contained, so if there is no DRM backups are simple enough; for Windows, it's usually not that easy, I believe.

            • opan 5 hours ago |
              For some games the executable just works outside of Steam, you can copy the whole directory from steamapps to elsewhere. I recall Starbound being like this during beta, good for last-minute local multiplayer at a LAN party.

              Those games aside, I think goldberg steam emulator is used for ripping/cracking/sharing games. I don't wanna say too much as I don't know the process well, but I think sometimes you remove or replace a certain steam file and that's the main thing needed. This doesn't get you past extra layers of DRM like Denuvo, of course. I recommend not buying any such games. You can follow a Steam curator that checks games for Denuvo and then it will display if they have it (or used to and removed it, like Soulcalibur VI) on the store page if you're logged in.

              https://store.steampowered.com/curator/26095454-Denuvo-Games...

        • aquova 7 hours ago |
          Everything on GoG is guaranteed to be DRM-free (see occasional scandal when something sneaks through that has it)
      • genewitch 8 hours ago |
        no all, but any that make you sign a EULA before you can start the game, yes.
    • margalabargala 8 hours ago |
      > Anyway I'll never use Steam to buy a game anymore anyway, because you're only really buying a license to rent a game.

      I wonder if you misinterpreted the article? The games are not being taken away from people who purchased them. They will simply no longer be offered for sale.

      I know the DRM exists, but to the extent that you trust the word of Steam and Gabe Newell, they have said they will release a patch undoing all Steam DRM if Steam ever goes out of business.

      • vikingerik 8 hours ago |
        It's easy for them to have that intention, but then the realities of operating from bankruptcy court or receivership or being assimilated by Microsoft or Sony could be much different.

        I choose to only buy stuff for like $8 and under where I can expect to get my money's worth of gameplay in a short time frame and so not have to worry about any long term sunsetting. That's a reasonable middle ground between fully trusting the platform or fully abhorring it.

      • somat 7 hours ago |
        Honestly I doubt that, and not because I distrust steam and gabe newell, in my books steam is one of the good guys, in an industry filled with nickle and dime rent seeking, steam provides a reliable, unobtrusive service. Personally I think their margin is grossly high. And I too hate how many of my games are locked up depending on the benevolence of a corporation. But steam has thus far proved to be a very useful service, mainly by not fucking up.

        I just don't think it could happen because when your business is going down in flames, the last thing on your mind is giving away the keys to the kingdom. The normal death spiral is. The business is unable to make a profit anymore and will have to be closed down. however it still has a reputation. somebody will buy the business with the expectation they will be able to make the changes needed to make a profit. these changes are vile, trying to extract any money they can from the corpse. it then gets sold to the next sucker. who repeats the whole repugnant farce. It is almost never a clean death.

      • amiga386 7 hours ago |
        If the developer offers the game on itch.io, buy it from there.

        If the developer offers the game on GOG, buy it from there.

        Otherwise, check if there's currently a crack for the steamworks version of the game. If so, buy it on Steam. Don't actually download or use the crack; just check it exists before buying.

        Otherwise, don't buy the game.

        • opan 5 hours ago |
          The recent indie release, Kitsune Tails, was available on Steam and Itch, but the creator actually made clear on social media that Steam reviews were really important and that they were only counted properly if the game was bought on Steam and not added there via a key. They were really pushing to hit Overwhelmingly Positive shortly after release, I don't know if that was the only reason, though.

          Also in your advice where you recommend verifying a crack exists before buying on Steam, isn't it similar to see if a GOG (drm-free) version exists that you could fetch at no cost later if needed, and then buy on Steam?

      • tertle950 7 hours ago |
        The "license to rent a game" deal is a general grievance about Steam that is not related to the article.

        Also it is one that can be extended to many other services offering digital goods for """purchase""", like iTunes

      • 0cf8612b2e1e 5 hours ago |
        > I know the DRM exists, but to the extent that you trust the word of Steam and Gabe Newell, they have said they will release a patch undoing all Steam DRM if Steam ever goes out of business.

        I do not believe this was said by Gabe. It was also made years ago before Steam was the size it has become. At the time, Steam might have only been losing Valve first party titles.

  • fourfour3 8 hours ago |
    Do not buy Crazy Taxi from Steam. It has broken input (analogue controls are really digital without fan patches), and does not play the original audio.
    • MegaDeKay 6 hours ago |
      Not playing the original audio is a crime. First thing I think about when someone names that game is The Offspring. "Ya ya ya ya ya"
    • saturn8601 4 hours ago |
      I wonder if that is why Governor Tim Walz was playing the game so weird. At certain points you could tell that he was struggling with the XBOX controller

      [1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGZa1Mgb-GE

  • simonlc 8 hours ago |
    My guess is licensing, they probably sold exclusive licenses, and part of that is delisting on other platforms.
    • AcerbicZero 8 hours ago |
      Probably this; I wonder if they're all going to Epic for a few years before coming back.
    • nitwit005 8 hours ago |
      Or they think they can make more selling some sort of bundle.
    • aquova 7 hours ago |
      I dont think so, they own a lot of these games and IP's outright, and most don't have licensed content. I think they're doing the same thing they did when they removed the Sonic titles from the collection a few years ago -- they're preparing some new title for those IPs, and some of these games will come with, so people will double dip under the guise of cleaning up their offerings
  • SllX 8 hours ago |
    Not sure about other platforms but at least on the Switch this doesn’t affect the Sega Ages line of games. As far as I can tell, this is specially the line of releases they titled Sega Classics, but the Sega Ages line are typically the best in class individual titles put together by M2.
  • ahofmann 8 hours ago |
    All four posts in this thread have obviously not read the article in full. Sega does this allegedly because they want to sell some kind of classics in stores. So while they have this sale, they delist the steam games.
    • crtasm 5 hours ago |
      The article's author doesn't know the reason. They repeat speculation that the same games will be re-released in new bundles.
  • AcerbicZero 8 hours ago |
    I mean, bold of you to assume that delisting a game from steam would stop me from acquiring it, if I wanted to, but ok.
    • Rapzid 7 hours ago |
      I don't think this is about you.
  • GauntletWizard 7 hours ago |
    All of the games on this list comprise the "Buy SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics" and "Dreamcast Collection" bundles. My guess is that part of it is the emulation layer - They use a shared backend and launcher for the Genesis games. Maybe they couldn't come to a license agreement with the emulation developer?

    The standouts for me are Jet Set Radio and NiGHTS into Dreams. The former is well known for it's soundtrack; Ain't nothing but a funky beat. The latter is unique and doesn't quite work, but there's something compelling anyway about the dreamlike visuals and weird floaty gameplay. Crazy Taxi is one I loved as a kid, but it's a bad port - an "Enhanced Remake" that ruined the game by leaving out it's killer soundtrack and breaking the controls.

    https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/10143/SEGA_Mega_Drive_... https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/14082/Dreamcast_Collec...

  • rosmax_1337 7 hours ago |
    If you don't remove old good content nobody will buy the new bad content.

    Sounds cynical and it's certainly a practice which isn't exactly widespread, yet.

    • hedora 7 hours ago |
      It's certainly widespread for movie remakes. Old classics usually cost money, or a specialty streaming service. New remakes of the same classics are usually on prime or netflix.
      • lawlessone 6 hours ago |
        Remakes are often bad because they're phoned in too ,to capitalize on the success of the orginal.

        I'm sure if as much effort was put into a remake as an original then the remake would be great.

        • shiroiushi 5 hours ago |
          There are some examples of remakes that are great. Frequently, these become the "classics" and people forget about the original. A canonical example is John Carpenter's "The Thing" in 1982, which was a remake of a somewhat crappy 50s movie and is now a sci-fi horror classic. Another good example is "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" from 1978, starring Donald Sutherland. It was a remake of a 1950s movie too, though in that case the 50s movie was actually pretty good, but the 1978 one was scarier.

          I can't think of any good remakes from after the year 2000.

    • hiccuphippo 6 hours ago |
      I've seen a few old games get their price increased before a new game for the franchise is going to be released.
      • wasdly 4 hours ago |
        Activision still charges $60 for Call Of Duty: Black Ops II. And $50 for the DLC. That game came out 12 years ago.
  • mikepavone 7 hours ago |
    For what it's worth, the existing Genesis/Mega Drive titles here generally contain the actual ROM. It's generally the cheapest way to get a legitimate copy of these games for use in an emulator. I realize a lot of folks probably don't care about that, but it's a good option for those that do.
  • AlienRobot 6 hours ago |
    I already own the bundle on Steam, but I wish they would just sell the ROM files instead and tell you "just use it in any emulator."
  • hinkley 6 hours ago |
    I don't recognize most of these but I do recognize Golden Axe.