• jeffbee 8 hours ago |
    It's a good feature. A similar feature just got added to Android, too. If the phone loses network, it locks. If the accelerometer thinks that the phone has been snatched from your hand, it locks.
    • kuschku 8 hours ago |
      Btw, is there a way to set Android to automatically reboot at a fixed time? That'd only cost like 20 seconds more to unlock in the morning but reduce the chance of 3-letter-agencies being able to extract the content in AFU state.
      • hunter2_ 8 hours ago |
        I can't find anything built into my Pixel, but it seems that Samsung and others offer it, or otherwise third party apps:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/androidapps/comments/1cscmu8/app_th...

      • jeroenhd 8 hours ago |
        Looks like Samsung can do it (though they offer it as advice to keep their buggy OS working, or to "to prevent it from slowing down or freezing" as they themselves put it): https://www.samsung.com/ph/support/mobile-devices/restart-yo...

        My Xiaomi phone had a feature where it would boot the phone shortly before any alarms would go off, so you could shut it down before bed and barely drain the battery in the mean time. Still required manual shutdowns, though.

      • mjevans 8 hours ago |
        I'd be fine with this, EXCEPT:

        1) Keep the alarm data in an insecure location so that app can work before login. (A read only cache is fine)

        2) Let me _choose_ if some other apps can live in the insecure storage partition too. E.G. Google Voice comes to mind along with any basic carrier integration stuff you'd rather just have even on a fully locked phone. (Why GV in unlocked? It interacts with the insecure phone network anyway, so that's not exactly holding much back. Maybe make message history harder to get to with a still locked device.)

        • kuschku 8 hours ago |
          Apps can already choose to place some data in pre-unlock or post-unlock storage, so your alarm or google voice should be unaffected.
      • mcsniff 8 hours ago |
        GrapheneOS has a feature to auto-reboot the device if it hasn't been unlocked in X hours.

        Set it sufficiently low, and it's a pretty good option to ensure keys are evicted and if you use a SIM pin, it's even better.

        • kuschku 8 hours ago |
          That'd be exactly what I need.

          Sadly GrapheneOS is only available on recent Pixel devices. I know I'm probably the only one that still cares about these features, but I won't buy a phone that requires me to hot-glue a USB dock to it just to get 3.5mm and microSD if I can simply buy a Sony instead :/

    • jeroenhd 8 hours ago |
      There's a difference between locking a phone and entering Before First Unlock state. After a reboot and before authentication the credentials stored on a phone are locked down much more securely, to the point (most) apps can't even start in the background.

      Locking and disabling biometrics are good ways to add a quick layer of protection, but rebooting makes it incredibly difficult for exploit kits and other hacking tools to dump the contents of a phone's storage.

      I'm thinking this may just be a bug (how often does a real world iPhone get zero available networks of any kind? Probably not enough for that use case to be tested thoroughly for days) but with how hard law enforcement is panicking about this, maybe it should be a feature. If they care this much, I don't think their expensive hacking subscription they've bought is working anymore, so it's probably working around some pretty bad vulnerabilities in iOS.

      • fpoling 7 hours ago |
        For me iPhone looses all connectivity on a daily basis. No cellular signals are available in the underground parking lot that I use.
  • runjake 8 hours ago |
  • qrios 8 hours ago |
  • uxjw 8 hours ago |
    Maybe designed to help with anti-theft? I already use a shortcut automation when airplane mode is turned on to lock my phone and turn off airplane mode, as that’s the first thing thieves would do.
    • ruthmarx 8 hours ago |
      Savvy thieves would just use a faraday cage case/bag I guess.
      • sroussey 6 hours ago |
        Sure. Or just power down. No FaceID or password code required. Find My may still work though, so thieves do use faraday bags.
    • hunter2_ 8 hours ago |
      When you say theft, do you mean by someone with interest in the hardware or the data? Assuming hardware, I'm not sure I understand why a thief who intends to wipe it anyway would care about an auto restart versus normal screen lock. Assuming data, that's exactly what the article is about.
      • ruthmarx 8 hours ago |
        Are thieves really even stealing phones anymore? You can't pawn or sell them anymore because they can't just be reset and setup with a new account, batteries are becoming impossible to remove...all you can really take is the screen which isn't really worth much either.
        • hunter2_ 7 hours ago |
          > can't just be reset and setup with a new account

          I know mobile networks keep lists of stolen devices, but they can't be used at all? Like all possible recovery modes demand authentication?

          • ruthmarx 7 hours ago |
            > I know mobile networks keep lists of stolen devices, but they can't be used at all? Like all possible recovery modes demand authentication?

            Newer phones for, I want to say maybe the last 5 years, yeah.

            If it's turned off and you don't have the code to boot it, you can't access any kind of bootloader or recovery mode, it just shows a screen with an obfuscated email that is required to unlock it or something similar.

            Gone are the days of just being able to do a factory reset.

            • sroussey 6 hours ago |
              True, but my iPhone 15 Pro was stolen, powered down, and likely ended up in china for parts.
          • sbierwagen 6 hours ago |
            Apple calls this Activation Lock: https://support.apple.com/en-us/108794 https://support.apple.com/en-us/120610

            Obviously, the logic board is locked to the owner's Apple account, but so is the display, battery, camera, and selfie camera. Basically the only thing you can reuse is the metal frame of the phone.

            Phones are still stolen (since the cost of theft is $0) but stolen phones are worth closer to $5 than $1000.

        • tedunangst 6 hours ago |
          • ruthmarx 4 hours ago |
            So they've given up on hardware and are now looking for insecure phones to try and access banking apps. Interesting.
    • counternotions 8 hours ago |
      Neat trick. But in what cities do people need to live like this?
      • ronsor 8 hours ago |
        San Francisco. Or almost any other big American city for that matter.
      • brendoelfrendo 7 hours ago |
        Any city with police that might steal your phone. So... all of them.
    • Shank 7 hours ago |
      You can just disable access to Control Center and Siri when locked. If you have an eSIM device, this is a really great thing to do, as it’ll always connect to a cellular network when available.
    • chatmasta 7 hours ago |
      How do you turn on airplane mode when that's actually what you want to do?
      • hunter2_ 6 hours ago |
        Personally I only use it for battery savings when camping or similar. It's not the kind of thing everyone cares about. I think we're long past the days where a flight full of phones frantically searching for towers during takeoff/landing would degrade the network for people on the ground, as may have been true way back when (and why) airplane mode was adopted as a standard feature.
    • layman51 6 hours ago |
      How is this shortcut even possible? Maybe it’s because I have an older model or haven’t figured out how to build good Shortcuts yet, but I thought that every shortcut requires some kind of manual activation. Would you launch the shortcut from an Apple Watch? Wouldn’t iOS require confirmation from the thief to turn off airplane mode?

      That being said, I have heard of a weird automation someone made where it would open an app as soon as they went to the Home Screen. It took some thinking for them to deactivate it because the shortcut was really fast to activate.

      • skygazer 5 hours ago |
        It’s in the automation tab of the shortcuts.app. You define trigger conditions and the shortcut to trigger.
  • leoqa 8 hours ago |
    It seems like an untested theory that should be easily reproducible?
  • Havoc 7 hours ago |
    Why would phones need another phone nearby to “tell them to reboot”

    Makes no sense.

    • MBCook 6 hours ago |
      They’re social animals, I guess.

      This is absolutely some kind of non-technical user superstition style claim born from a little bit of paranoia that Apple hates cops because they don’t roll over easy (though they do follow subpoenas they are technically capable of following).

  • 486sx33 7 hours ago |
    So what did we learn class? If you’re ever in a situation where your iPhone is being seized, power it down :)
    • paxys 7 hours ago |
      You actually don't have to power it down. If you hold the power and volume buttons for 2 seconds and reach the "slide to power off" screen, the phone is already hard locked. You then always have to enter the passcode to unlock it.
      • Crosseye_Jack 7 hours ago |
        If you have an iPhone SE Gen 3 (Or any other iPhone with TouchID, but models older than the SEGen3 have other weaknesses to worry about), you can do the same by spamming the power button 5 times.

        You can also ask Siri to reboot or turn off your phone, Siri will ask you to confirm you want to do the action, but it doesn't take too long to do. Just in case you don't want to reach for your phone for what ever reason.

      • SuperShibe 7 hours ago |
        This is wrong. While this clears a some keys and prevents anyone from holding the phone up your face to unlock it, it doesn’t bring the phone back into a full BFU state.

        Some keys can still be read, and depending on the exploit they use a lot of data could be extracted. BFU + good passcode is always the way to go.

        • ziddoap 6 hours ago |
          >BFU state.

          "Before first unlock", for those like me who weren't familiar with this particular acronym.

      • smiley1437 6 hours ago |
        > You actually don't have to power it down. If you hold the power and volume buttons for 2 seconds and reach the "slide to power off" screen, the phone is already hard locked. You then always have to enter the passcode to unlock it.

        Iphones have 2 states when it comes to encryption:

        Before First Unlock (BFU) - everything is encrypted. The most difficult state to hack.

        After First Unlock (AFU) - data isn’t fully encrypted. Maybe it's for performance reasons. In this state exploits exist which police can use to get data.

        Your suggestion of getting to the 'slide to power off' screen does NOT hardlock the phone (it does not put it in BFU).

        It just means it requires a passcode. However, since it is in AFU mode, data can be exfiltrated with the right tools.

        You should definitely power it down to be secure.

    • beeflet 7 hours ago |
      IDK about iOS, but android (or at least calyxOS/grapheneOS) has a feature where you can make the phone automatically reboot after a certain amount of time (thus removing the keys from memory).
  • joshstrange 7 hours ago |
    The theory makes zero sense on many levels. Why are we are publishing cop’s guesses on how software giants work…
    • MBCook 6 hours ago |
      “Helping criminals“ gets headlines. Anything involving Apple gets headlines.

      Apple “helping criminals“ is a gold mine.

      I can’t read the full article, but I’d be surprised if the cops didn’t manage to claim how this is somehow related to fentanyl in there somewhere.

  • Shank 7 hours ago |
    The idea that iPhones magically communicate with each other to “reboot randomly” when off a cellular network (assumably would happen on a plane easily) is pretty far fetched. The far more likely explanation is that iOS 18.0 has some radio/modem bugs that causes devices to randomly reboot, likely correlated with long periods of disuse or lack of network connectivity.

    Or heck, if the phone thinks the cellular modem isn’t working (like the phone in a faraday cage), some watchdog might just timeout and reboot.

    In any case, the idea that they’re randomly networking and intentionally rebooting to thwart this specific law enforcement attack seems pretty unlikely.

    • kubectl_h 7 hours ago |
      What's interesting to me is that Apple's stance of not unlocking iPhones for law enforcement has led to this paranoia on law enforcements part. Honestly? Good.
      • MBCook 6 hours ago |
        Apple doesn’t have a stance of not unlocking phones for law enforcement. They give law enforcement whatever they’re asked for by subpoena.

        Apple‘s stance is to build strong encryption so that they can’t access customers data. What they have refused to do is weaken that encryption so that they could start complying with future requests or sign tampered with firmware that would allow the decryption without user authorization.

        • skygazer 5 hours ago |
          They also refused to make a build (signed by Apple) which would remove any of those protections, though technically possible, but would have tainted their products as backdoored. They were prepared to argue forcing them to do that would be the government compelling speech, a violation of the First Amendment, a precedent the FBI didn’t want, and so turned to a CellBright type service instead. Apple did make public statements at the time against backdooring devices which might be construed as a stance.
        • TowerTall 4 hours ago |
          As far as I know the iCloud backup are unencrypted so law enforcement can just request a backup of those instead.
          • philistine 4 hours ago |
            You're not up-to-date and your language is not exact:

            1. Your backups are encrypted in transit and at rest. You have a key, Apple also has one.

            2. You can optionally ask Apple to get rid of its key to your backup. (https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756)

    • melq 7 hours ago |
      iPhones are already communicating with any and every bluetooth capable Apple device to enable the findmy/airtag functionality aren't they? I dont believe this is necessarily true just that its theoretically possible.
      • Jtsummers 7 hours ago |
        The issue is not that Apple devices communicate with each other. It's the absurd claim that there's a secret handshake between Apple devices that tells them to reboot if they've been offline and locked for too long.

        So sit around in a less secure state for weeks and months and only when externally triggered reboot? That's a stupid feature and makes no sense. If you were to base any partial security measure off of how long a device has been powered up and locked, then just use a timer. Why wait for another phone to wander by?

        Though the digital forensics lab claims they were all in airplane mode with one inside a faraday box, so how are they communicating with each other? This suggests incompetence on their part, perhaps not actually putting them in airplane mode or not understanding that bluetooth/wifi can be enabled (and may enable themselves) separately from the cellular radio.

      • MBCook 6 hours ago |
        It’s communication in that information is being passed, but it’s a one-way Bluetooth broadcast. It’s not any kind of two-way communication.

        At most an iPhone may be able to broadcast a Bluetooth message saying “anybody out there?“. I don’t even know if that’s possible. I’m sure Apple‘s white paper has the answer but I don’t remember it.

    • sherry-sherry 7 hours ago |
      I don't think it's what's happening here, but iPhones absolutely communicate with each other when there's no cellular network.

      The 'Find My' network uses all iPhones/iPads/Macs (unless disabled) to locate said devices and other items over Bluetooth LE.

      > The Find My network is an encrypted, anonymous network of hundreds of millions of Apple devices that can help find your stuff, even when it’s offline. Nearby devices securely send the location of your missing device to iCloud, so you can find it in Find My. It’s all anonymous and encrypted to protect everyone’s privacy. — https://support.apple.com/en-au/104978

      • MBCook 6 hours ago |
        But that’s just Bluetooth beacon stuff, it’s one way broadcast communication to anything that’s listening.

        It’s like an automated ARP response packet that’s automatically transmitted occasionally without needing to hear a request.

    • LorenPechtel 6 hours ago |
      Second this. It strikes me as a completely reasonable watchdog. Other than if you're keeping it around in a faraday cage it's very unlikely to receive *nothing* for an extended period. How many people take phones into such environments for extended periods? Thus if nothing is coming in it probably means something's messed up.

      And if it reboots on the cops Apple probably considers that a plus.

    • xk_id 5 hours ago |
      It’s very well established by numerous studies that apple products continuously scan for other wireless devices in their proximity, especially Apple ones but including wifi routers, and then upload their hardware IDs and MAC addresses to apple server, together with GPS location.

      https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf

      • reaperducer 2 hours ago |
        And what does that have to do with the article?
  • Crosseye_Jack 7 hours ago |
    > Apple may have introduced a new security feature in iOS 18 that tells nearby iPhones to reboot if they have been disconnected from a cellular network for some time.

    My guess (and this is just a complete random guess), its a bug not a feature, prob to do with Find My, all the phones are prob airplane mode and they are all trying to talk to each other (and to the mothership) regarding Find My and are crashing out.

  • spike021 7 hours ago |
    My iPhone 16 on iOS 18 has been randomly respringing (as far as I can tell). Not fully rebooting but basically the UI crashes and it kicks me out to the lock screen.

    I wonder if that's all this is. Probably a memory leak somewhere or some other bug.

  • declan_roberts 6 hours ago |
    > the reported iPhone reboots highlight the constant cat and mouse game between law enforcement officers and forensic experts on one side, and phone manufacturers Apple and Google on the other.

    I don't think Google is in this same category at all. Didn't they just recently give nest door unlock codes to LEO without even asking for a warrant?

    Apple and Google are on different planets when it comes to user privacy.

  • sroussey 6 hours ago |
    Seems more like the phone batteries went to zero and then power came back on and they went back up but obviously restarted.

    If you are not looking at a phone all day, you may not have noticed that the power was out to them over some weekend.

  • pyuser583 5 hours ago |
    There were a number of custom “crime phones”, run by criminal organizations. One of the features was rebooting when were arrested, as triggered by the criminal organization.

    Law enforcement seems to be reading the behavior into the iPhone, which is understandable. They’ve see it before.

    The real concern is how law enforcement seems to create these bright lines between “legitimate” and “illegitimate” security.

    Shutting down when an attack is suspected is a reasonable security feature.

  • akimbostrawman an hour ago |
    Probably a bug but a feature on GrapheneOS

    https://grapheneos.org/features#auto-reboot