• pvg 5 hours ago |
  • m12k 4 hours ago |
    • raverbashing 4 hours ago |
      Posting the link here probably was too much for a video serving mastodon instance
  • scyzoryk_xyz 4 hours ago |
    I just love the fact that this guy shares everything on those forums.

    I remember seeing early parts of his work on papers please and there is something wonderful about sharing your process and exposing it to feedback.

    • Cthulhu_ 4 hours ago |
      I feel like you have to have an audience of sorts while you work, else it's like screaming into the void.
      • epidemian 3 hours ago |
        But that'd be sort of a chicken and egg problem, right? You can't build an audience unless you're willing to scream into the void :)
      • jebarker 3 hours ago |
        It's also probably the best way to build a following for an indie game that'll otherwise just be a drop in an ocean of games released everyday
  • donatj 4 hours ago |
    Oh this is genuinely fascinating.

    I literally had no idea so much went into the dithering, my presumption was there was just an off the shelf posterization filter applied.

    The end result looks fantastic and managed to give me wild nostalgia for playing games like The Manhole on my friends Macintosh Classic as a kid.

    One of my favorite games ever, my wife and I played through it together. I feel like there's not a lot of games you can play with another person these days and playing it like that was a wonderful experience. I would highly recommend playing it with another person if you have the chance.

    • jdalt 4 hours ago |
      I had the same experience playing it with my wife. The shared puzzle solving lead to some very late nights. My favorite game of the last 10 years.
    • coldpie 4 hours ago |
      There's loads of puzzle games that are great for this! Off the top of my head, check out Lorelei and the Laser eyes, the recent Monkey Island, Case of the Golden Monkey, the two Talos Principle games, maybe The Witness?
      • InsideOutSanta 3 hours ago |
        Case of the Golden Monkey sounds fascinating, but almost too secretive. It's an Idol, not a Monkey :-)

        Excellent list! I'd also add The Crimson Diamond to it.

        • coldpie 3 hours ago |
          Hah. Well, at least I didn't write Curse...
      • jsheard 3 hours ago |
        The Outer Wilds (not The Outer Worlds) is also a fantastic game along those lines.

        Don't read too much about it, you want to go in as blind as possible.

      • grraaaaahhh 3 hours ago |
        I'd add Chants of Sennaar to this list. It's similar to Case of the Golden Idol/Obra Dinn in that the entire game is about making deductions about the game world, but in this case it's about decoding fantasy languages.
    • teamonkey 3 hours ago |
      > I feel like there's not a lot of games you can play with another person these days and playing it like that was a wonderful experience.

      May I suggest Her Story / Telling Lies / Immortality ?

    • ronjouch 3 hours ago |
      > I feel like there's not a lot of games you can play with another person these days and playing it like that was a wonderful experience. I would highly recommend playing it with another person if you have the chance.

      Absolutely. Shameless self-plug to my list of games for "non-gamers" that I find enjoyable with a friend or significant other: https://ronan.jouchet.fr/games?list=nongamer . The first of the list is ...... Return of the Obra Dinn ^^.

      • AndrewStephens 2 hours ago |
        What a great list, thanks for sharing.
      • jonesetc 2 hours ago |
        A lot of great stuff on there. Random game from last year that feels like it would fit well is Chants of Sennaar. Played though it with my non-gaming partner and we had a blast.
        • ronjouch 2 hours ago |
          Thanks!

          Sennaar didn't gel with me, because language-based deduction imply an "arbitrariness" ("wobbliness"?) and mis-interpretations. To me, this felt frustrating compared to the sharpness of an Obra Dinn deduction. But for others it might be part of the appeal, and at any rate it's undeniably a polished game, so I understand that a lot people enjoy it :)

          Regarding other similar recommendations I see in-thread and that are not already in the list:

          - The Outer Wilds: one of my fav games ever (it's at the top of my "absolute best" list), but too 3d-mechanically-demanding for a very-non-gamer.

          - The Witness: same, thus for this "non-gamers" list I preferred recommending its excellent 2D little-brother, Taiji :)

          - Case of the Golden Idol: yeah it's a clear "play that too if you liked Obra Dinn", added as Obra Dinn addendum

          - Lorelei and the Laser eyes: haven't played it yet, will soon!

          • JoshTriplett 2 hours ago |
            > Sennaar didn't gel with me, because language-based deduction imply an "arbitrariness" ("wobbliness"?) and mis-interpretations.

            I definitely found the misinterpretations entertaining. It seems like they went to some amount of effort to anticipate potential misinterpretations, such that discovering those misinterpretations later would lead to amusement.

          • jonesetc an hour ago |
            Lorelei and the Laser eyes was one of my favorite games that I played this past year. I think it might be good for a non-gamer, but they had better absolutely love puzzles. Also some of the puzzles require playing videogames within the main game and I can't remember exactly, but they may not make much sense or be very fun if you don't have experience with like PS1 era horror games.

            For The Witness, I would recommend tagging it as appropriately not accessible. There is a section that can't be completed at all without hearing, and large chunks of the game that I can't imagine are possible with color blindness. I don't have either of these issues, but running into those things really rubbed me the wrong way. It is a game that seems to value the creators vision above all else and isn't willing to make any sacrifices for the audience.

            Edit: I realize I misread and thought you were saying you were going to add The Witness to the non-gamer list, which was why I was saying that a disclaimer would be extra useful. Left it anyway.

            • ronjouch 29 minutes ago |
              > For The Witness, I would recommend tagging it as appropriately not accessible. There is a section that can't be completed at all without hearing, and large chunks of the game that I can't imagine are possible with color blindness. I don't have either of these issues, but running into those things really rubbed me the wrong way. It is a game that seems to value the creators vision above all else and isn't willing to make any sacrifices for the audience.

              For sure, "uncompromising" or "design-opinionated" are adjectives that fit Jonathan Blow (lead designer & programmer of The Witness) and I doubt he'd object :D.

              He was asked about these inaccessible puzzles, and from what I remember, his answer was pretty much what you intuited: that he was aware, but unwilling to compromise, in a "not every art if for everyone and that's fine" kind of way. And announcing them or having { I am color-blind, I am deaf } accessibility options to adapt could/would have spoiled the surprise, so he went ahead with them.

              I still like The Witness for what it is. Maybe I will change my mind someday and will flag my recommendation with an inaccessibility warning, but for now it's in my "absolute best" sub-list without caveat.

              > Lorelei and the Laser eyes was one of my favorite games that I played this past year. I think it might be good for a non-gamer, but they had better absolutely love puzzles.

              Cool, will try it soon! And might add it to my "best puzzle games" sublist, https://ronan.jouchet.fr/games?list=puzzle

          • meandthebean 26 minutes ago |
            > Sennaar didn't gel with me, because language-based deduction imply an "arbitrariness" ("wobbliness"?) and mis-interpretations

            After not too far in, you eventually start confirming the meanings of words. Eventually you confirm the meaning of every word of every language. So, while learning a language can be a challenge of interpretation, eventually you do get concrete meanings.

            Edit: I'd also recommend The Sexy Brutale for your list, it's a time loop detective game.

      • orbital-decay 2 hours ago |
        I think Outer Wilds might have a place in a list like this.
      • lomase 2 hours ago |
        I loved the gameplay on "Her Story". I don't know if I finished the game, it really didn't matter anyway.
      • pdpi an hour ago |
        Given that you have Patrick's Parabox in that list, have you played Baba is You?
        • ronjouch 40 minutes ago |
          Hola! I thought that Baba is Lovely at first, but then come the later levels and alas, Baba is Too Much.

          (With the usual qualifier: for me ! I don't doubt many puzzle freaks absolutely loved it and 100%ed it, but for me it was too much, too hard, too tedious).

    • NikolaNovak 2 hours ago |
      Such games are a treasure. My wife and I enjoyed Firewatch and Take of two brothers, as well as all the amanita design games like that. One person has the controls but two people are actively engaged :-). Any tips for others?
  • devit 4 hours ago |
    It looks like none of the proposed approaches work well, and the problem seems to be much more complicated that it looks.

    I think what might work properly is:

    - A "fractal" dither pattern so that it can be zoomed out and in smoothly and is scale invariant

    - Doing things in texel space so that both camera movement and object movement works properly

    - Doing bilinear filtering (perhaps keeping all samples instead of storing the weighted average) or perhaps supersampled rendering of the dithered pattern, and then using some sort of error diffusion pass in screen space (with a compute shader)

    But not actually sure if this works in practice.

    If that's not enough, an alternative would be to do things in screen space "naively", then reverse map the screen space rendering to texel space (in a resolution-preserving way), and use the information in texel space on the next frame to create a screen space solution compatible to the one in texel space, map it to texel space, etc., effectively building up the fractal per-texel pattern incrementally at runtime. This might be the best solution but seems very expensive in terms of memory, computation and complexity.

  • diabllicseagull 4 hours ago |
    Having worked on graphics programming for more than a decade, I still didn't pick on that when I played the game. Considering the overall visual language of the game, I'd say it's 100 hours well spent.

    Could have easily published this at SIGGRAPH under temporal coherence for non-photorealistic rendering.

  • bob1029 3 hours ago |
    I always found the error diffusion dithering techniques to be very interesting. It's amazing the result you can get with such minimal information.
  • AndrewStephens 3 hours ago |
    Harsh 1-bit dithering is such an interesting topic - even in 2d there are multiple ways of doing it, each with trade-offs and advantages.

    It is amazing to me that something that was so integral to the 80s computing experience is now actually quite tricky on modern hardware. For my own project[0] I found that it is almost impossible to ensure a one-to-one mapping between offscreen pixels and the canvas provided by the browser.

    [0] https://sheep.horse/2023/1/improved_web_component_for_pixel-...

  • Workaccount2 3 hours ago |
    I genuinely prefer the original and think the final approach gives too much of "low res texture" look as opposed to a pure 1 bit dithered output.
    • nemetroid 2 hours ago |
      For a five-second demo I agree. But for five hours of playtime, I think the original would result in serious visual fatigue.
  • feverzsj 3 hours ago |
    The game is mostly black and white. The dithering effect isn't actually pleasing and sometime confusing.
  • Darthy 2 hours ago |
    I recently downloaded it from GOG and tried to play it on a 5K studio display. I wasn't able to get a result that did not blur those beautiful pixels, which is such a shame. Yes, I did go into all those setting menus.
  • seanhunter an hour ago |
    For people who are unaware "Return of the Obra Dinn" and "Papers, Please" are both games by Lucas Pope and they are both considered absolute classics and have won multiple awards. Well worth checking out even if you don't consider yourself a typical game-enjoyer. They are not typical games.
    • stavros 21 minutes ago |
      "Papers, Please" is a masterpiece. Obra Dinn I must have made some mistake, because it stopped giving me clues after way too few stories to match anything else.
  • tantalor 28 minutes ago |
    > maybe I shouldn't let these bullshit little pixels push me around

    Found a new mantra for my life.

  • makizar 25 minutes ago |
    Went a bit further down the rabbit hole and found the previous devlogs he posted about the topic for anyone interested. [1] [2] Of note was an upsampling algorithm called Scale2X he talked about. [3] Pretty neat !

    [1] https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.260 [2] https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg121719... [3] https://www.scale2x.it