• tromp 9 hours ago |
    > Technically the language is Turing complete at this point, but will be excruciatingly laborious to use, violating my design rule #2.

    I stopped at step #1 with my Lambda Diagrams [1]. The bottom of that page links to all other graphical lambda calculus notations I know of (just added this one).

    [1] https://tromp.github.io/cl/diagrams.html

    • 082349872349872 5 hours ago |
      of interest to this site, the Y combinator as a Lambda Diagram: https://tromp.github.io/img/cl/Y.logo.gif
    • imglorp 3 hours ago |
      Excruciatingly laborious to read as well. The pixel font and line art is quaint but not ergonomic if you have to strain to read it or discern a wire shape. We left that stuff behind in the 90s when high res displays arrived.
  • sans_souse 9 hours ago |
    It's all way over my head, but this is amazing work! The 2 obfustication techniques are pretty insane.

    Had some issues trying to upload my own png's, maybe too big(?)

  • Instantnoodl 5 hours ago |
    That looks like a fun project to build!
  • WillAdams 5 hours ago |
    Why did it have to be pixelated in appearance? It would be far more attractive as anti-aliased vector lines and type.

    The red highlighting reminds me of electricity in the classic circuit problem game _Rocky's Boots_ on the Apple ][.

    As I've posted in similar discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42051536

    The problem here, as always is that there isn't an agreed-upon answer for the question:

    >What does an algorithm look like?

    The problem is expressiveness of such a diagram is bounded by the size of a screen or a sheet of paper, and once one starts to scroll, or can't see the entire flow at a glance, things get complicated.

    The node/wire programming folks have this a bit rougher to the point that there are sites such as:

    https://blueprintsfromhell.tumblr.com/

    https://scriptsofanotherdimension.tumblr.com/

    I prefer to work visually, but not sure if that's actually valid --- unfortunately https://www.blockscad3d.com/editor/ doesn't support all of OpenSCAD and https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor has problems with a stylus (I have to leave the Windows Settings app open to toggle stylus behaviour which is enough friction that I don't use it as much as I would otherwise).

    There are promising tools though: https://nodezator.com/ and https://ryven.org/ are very cool.

    • FrustratedMonky 4 hours ago |
      For this link you gave

      https://blueprintsfromhell.tumblr.com/

      What is link to some more background on the 'blueprint' app. I couldn't find it.

      • kevindamm 4 hours ago |
        It's Unreal Engine 4 (the UE4 in the in-body title).. seems all or most of them are in the animations control flow editor. You can find a similar interface in Unity's Animation controller editor, too. Sometimes you'll find this interface in behavior tree editors and shader editors within both UE4 and Unity, also.
    • pjmlp 3 hours ago |
      The problem is that while on text based languages folks quickly learn to use subroutines and modules/packages, apparently the same concept seems alien to anyone that hasn't done digital circuit design.

      Most visual languages, support subroutines and modules/packages as well, no need to design a gigantic piece of spaghetti.

      If anything, visual languages make it clear straight away when the code is a mess.

      • WillAdams 2 hours ago |
        Yes, but if one uses subroutines/modules, then one ends up with the wall of text which one was presumably attempting to escape from --- just wrapped up in coloured boxes/connected with lines.

        GraphSCAD at least affords an option to add an image to a module representation, preserving some of the visual aspect --- I believe OpenSCAD Graph Editor has that in the works (if it's not already done).

  • auggierose 5 hours ago |
    Sure a fun project, but that neither looks good, nor is it easy to understand. Reminds me of Frege's notation on steroids.
  • karmonhardan 5 hours ago |
    This reminds me of Lukasa memory boards, analogous to written language as this is to traditional programming (or as a table is to a chart). It's amazing how the way information is encoded and presented can affect its interpretation.
  • igtztorrero 4 hours ago |
    Nice ideas. I like the notebook where can I get it ?
    • varjag 4 hours ago |
      moleskine.com
  • smusamashah 4 hours ago |
  • spacedcowboy 4 hours ago |
    Reminds me of the 1987 “Wireworld”, of course Wikipedia has an article [1]. I’ve seen 8-bit counters implemented in wireworld, which is quite something, though this looks a bit more … succinct.

    [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireworld

    • NikkiA 3 hours ago |
      I find Zach(tronics)'s take on this in KOHCTPYKTOP much more pleasing somehow.

      Of course, it's difficult to play now, since the webpage [1], and steam version relied on flash, and you have to fiddle with a 3rd party flash reimplementation.

      But its implementation of semiconductor behaviour is much better than wireworld's.

      [1] https://www.zachtronics.com/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-peop...

  • bbor 4 hours ago |
    Wow, I love this -- all the more so because it's implemented in Javascript! The purists are spinning in their beds/graves, but it clearly made the visualization and audio followup steps easier, at the very least. The visuals are killer, and the obvious next step is to somehow translate the higher-level structure of existing programs into this; I would imagine nerds would pay good money to get Djikstra's algorithm on their wall, or an ANN backprop algorithm.

    I did find this part funny:

      One interesting problem that I did not anticipate while imagining the language was that it turned out so purely functional and absolutely state-less, that it becomes impossible to implement a "print" statement, for to print is to change state, to expect some things to be printed in some particular order is to assume that some expressions will be evaluated in some order.
    
    Isn't this just to say "not imperative"? Regardless, it does make me wonder how one would encode state... maybe introduce variables (icon + color?) and have individual statements ordered on one or both axes?
  • yboris 4 hours ago |
    Direct link to the online demo: https://l-2d.glitch.me/
  • aapoalas 3 hours ago |
    If you like this, you may find automation project engineer work fun... or at least familiar. Function block diagrams are quite like this: There function blocks are connected together with wires, and the order of operations is defined by block order. Blocks themselves are like builtin functions in the engine, or they can also be composites. The diagram is executed once per control cycle and generally (if no jump blocks exist), each block is always executed exactly once per control cycle regardless of if their inputs have changed or not.

    And that is how control logic for anything from breweries to petrochemical plants is implemented! Fun stuff! I happen to work on the UI side of an FBD-based control system, so I float around this stuff day-to-day.

    • aaronblohowiak 2 hours ago |
      Like PLCs or something similar?
  • addaon 3 hours ago |
    "The area of non-verbal programming languages has not been unexplored."

    Starting out with the aggressive triple negative in sentence two!

    • ersiees 43 minutes ago |
      And there is scratch right?
  • reportgunner 2 hours ago |
    Looks unreadable and reminds me of Factorio.
  • mattlondon an hour ago |
    Something that always struck me about this sort of thing, or in similar games, is that it is only 2D and so rapidly becomes incredibly crowded with lines going everywhere.

    We code in a 2D nature (rows and columns) but the flow is non-euclidean I guess

    • jasfi 17 minutes ago |
      There's not enough space to represent code graphically, anything significant becomes crowded and messy.

      Every project like this starts off extolling that we are visual creatures, but this is a type of visualization we're not well suited to.

  • 8bitsrule an hour ago |
    Takes me back to the good-old-days of block diagrams. Those went away with few complaints.
  • tgv an hour ago |
    These things have been done in Labview, and it's hard to get anywhere. It's also been done in sound/music generation programs, with Max [max] as a (the?) granddaddy. While you can get things done, it quickly becomes messy too.

    Does it look good? I don't think so.

    [max] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_(software)

    • f1shy an hour ago |
      Simulink should be included in the list?

      All this "block programming languages" look promising, abstraction by black-boxing, doing boxes of boxes... I wonder if the implementations are bad, they are badly used, or the paradigm just does not work...

      One thing to take into account, is that those things are typically used by people who have no idea how to program and abstract things. Maybe if somebody is good ad programming would not do a mess out of it; but then (s)he could just go ahead and write code. so.....

      I must agree, LabView is terrible, not just because of that, but updates break everything, licensing, etc... just PITA

  • sriram_malhar an hour ago |
    Beautifully executed. The animated run feature on the online demo is exciting to watch.
  • tombert an hour ago |
    I've been interested in graphical formal specifications since I first heard about Petri Nets like a decade ago. It always felt like engineers would be more likely to utilize formal methods if there was a graphical representation instead of a bunch of scary math notation and language associated with it. Sadly, every time I've tried showing Petri Nets to other engineers, they get pretty disinterested almost immediately.

    Before I abandoned my PhD at University of York, I was working with something called "RoboChart" and RoboSim [1], which I actually think might be more approachable, but it's pretty tied into the robotics semantics. A pet project I've been working on has been trying to adapt and extend RoboSim to something a bit more useful for the network and server world.

    [1] https://robostar.cs.york.ac.uk/robotool/