I think a lot of subtlety gets lost in translations, even from person to person. Is the more "academically correct" translation better, or is the one that captures the slang and the vibe in modern terms and memes in a way we can feel the speaker more correct?
I think most people who choose the former look at translations as something that is absolute and objective, but I think translations, like most communication, needs to be subjective to both the speaker and the reader.
And just as humans can get each of these "wrong," LLMs can and will, too
If I want to learn about a culture and language, an objective translation is what I want. E.g. I want to learn the idioms of the time and place, not have them changed by the whim of the translator to something similar but perhaps changing the intent
If I want to persuade or illuminate the topic, then by all means a more approachable translation with modern idiom is more useful.
An example I know of is, an early Dolby cassette recording from a Japanese source had the marketing copy "Smells of the lamp of high technology!" Which is meaningless, even humorous to a Westerner. Not good marketing copy.
But I enjoyed learning something of Japanese culture. That things could 'smell of' something as a way of imagining them.
That doesn't mean that translations are useless, but you're kidding yourself if you think you understand the phrase that translated to "smells of" in the same way that a Japanese person would. It's evocative to you, but native speakers may not even think of it as a metaphor. As an example, do you think of a human face when someone refers to the "face" of a clock? Do you imagine an organist when someone says they are "pulling out all the stops"?
Only real Japanese speakers can experience works of art in Japanese, just as Germans who don't speak English can't actually experience Hasselhoff the way Americans do, try as they might. People can create works of art inspired by the originals, and call them translations, but they are new works.
So in some sense a translation is less of a unique work than a film adaptation.
Classical scholars are an exception here, who might read Homer in half a dozen translations. But that's for two reasons: firstly, classical scholars are likely translators themselves, or at least students of the art of translation; secondly, there are only so many great Ancient Greek texts to read in the original.
Art is a complex thing, and doesn't really respect the commodity form. The same "work" can be totally different to people with different experiences, skills, neuroses, etc. You can read the same book twice and enjoy it, or not, differently each time. People enjoy live music exactly because each performance is different. Ultimately we're all trying to wring meaning from our lives, and art is a tool to give you some leverage in that work.
But how can you learn the meaning of an idiom if it's translated literally? For example, even in context, "and now we have the salad" can be pretty baffling.
If you're reading something written in the 19th or early 20th century then even something you think you understand might be going over your head, because it's referencing some cultural context obvious to anyone at the time.
For classical Chinese poetry, the best English translations have been other poets, even though most have been unable to read any Chinese! Check out "Lament of the Frontier Guard" by Tang dynasty poet Li Bo (李白), as written by Ezra Pound more than 100 years ago:
By the North Gate, the wind blows full of sand,
Lonely from the beginning of time until now!
Trees fall, the grass goes yellow with autumn.
I climb the towers and towers to watch out the barbarous land:
Desolate castle, the sky, the wide desert.
There is no wall left to this village.
Bones white with a thousand frosts,
High heaps, covered with trees and grass;
Who brought this to pass? ...
https://scalar.fas.harvard.edu/resources-for-loss/lament-of-...
I am sure professional translators would find issues on technical and stylistic points, but could any be as evocative with their own translations?
I think we have to be prepared to give LLMs some leeway with language ... or empower humans (both editors and readers) with the tools to "tune" the translations as appropriate to their tastes, understanding, and subjective needs. This is basically what Korny did, trying different tools and consulting other humans as needed with certain colloquialisms.
I eventually figured out that the German subtitles had been machine-translated from the English subtitles!
If someone is important enough to warrant a biographer they’ll put more work into the narrative but old autobiographies seem to be very mechanical records.
Of course, political debates were more useful when we could come to some loose agreement on what the facts are. Even that seems impossible today.
[1] https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/stories/sietsma.html
One example is a GPT version [1] fine tuned on texts of Sefaria [2].
The initiator was in direct contact with Sam Altman to kickstart it. (Personal communication).
He talks about this publicly [3]
[1]: https://github.com/Sefaria/AppliedAI [2]: https://www.sefaria.org/texts [3]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tZkJl2fk0rc
Note the title of the book should be Een Waarlijk Vrije; i.e. the last word has a j.
Curious that DeepL translated "Gaf geen kamp" to "gave a camp", since "geen" means no/none. It seemed to totally ignore it or reverse it's meaning.
Regarding "droving" perhaps "herding" might be a more familiar term. And it might be more accurate; I suspect that long distance herding wasn't a common thing in the Netherlands.
"Droving" is admittedly a bit silly - herding probably makes more sense.
When it comes to translation, context matters a lot. Translating a single paragraph without considering the broader context is often suboptimal. A better approach is to provide additional material that gives the translator more background information and the overarching goal.
One effective method I’ve found is using the Cursor editor:
1. Organize your content in a directory, ideally as Markdown files.
2. Include clear instructions on the style and purpose of the translation. For example, a literal, word-for-word translation differs from one aimed at conveying emotions or artistic intent. A .cursorrules file can provide global context and guidelines. When I edit blog posts, I use this one: https://github.com/stared/stared.github.io/blob/main/.cursor.... For a biography, it would be different.
3. Translate paragraph by paragraph, with some manual oversight, to ensure consistency and quality.