• user_james92 6 days ago |
    pretty cool graphs
  • onionisafruit 6 days ago |
    From the bottom of the page:

    > TL;DR: we can delete most of the emissions of the developed world today by switching heating & car and truck transport to electrical - if we make sure we generate all electricity with near-zero emissions. Just building more renewable generation won't solve it though, as you still need to make sure it covers all consumption everywhere. This map intends to show why that's a complicated problem, and why we should also be smart about where we build renewable generation so that most of the generated energy can also be used and not thrown away because the grid can't handle it.

    This is what I wonder about when I drive through West Texas and see massive wind farms in the middle of nowhere.

    • kieranmaine 6 days ago |
      Stats on wind and solar curtailment on the Texas grid - https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=57100

      "In 2022, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), the grid manager for most of Texas, curtailed 5% of its total available wind generation and 9% of total available utility-scale solar generation. By 2035, however, we project wind curtailments in ERCOT could increase to 13% of total available wind generation, and solar curtailments could reach 19%."

  • skywal_l 6 days ago |
    A little faster and clearer one in my opinion: https://app.electricitymaps.com/
    • andix 6 days ago |
      Copper Sushi doesn't load for me, but I'm wondering how it is going to beat the awesome electricitymaps. They have all the data and quite a good viewer.
      • skagenpilot 6 days ago |
        It shows a much finer grained representation of the whole transportation network. So you have much better idea of where is electricity produced and consumed within each country. When it comes to figuring out what the electricity mix is made of, electricitymaps is clearer.
      • pyrale 5 days ago |
        They don't show the same thing. Electricity map is mostly focused on showing public market data about electricity and co2 emissions, while that site is a showcase of how a power flow works to calculate how electricity flows in the grid (not using real data of course, as the type of data used isn't public).

        Both are interesting, I understand the site displayed in this article aims to show the complexity of the underlying system, which isn't shown by electricitymap.

    • insane_dreamer 6 days ago |
      two different things; electricitymaps.com is a much more macro view, nice for looking at inter-country flows, whereas this one is great for looking at individual generation points and flows
  • skagenpilot 6 days ago |
    When looking at France, at a zoom level where one can see the whole country, all the green dots are located next to nuclear power plants. It's a good reminder that the french grid is mostly powered by nuclear.

    It'd be nice to see the same map over summer to see if the different electric mix then gives birth to a different map.

    • insane_dreamer 6 days ago |
      if it wasn't for France having primarily used nuclear power decades ago, Europe as a whole would be in a much much worse state when it comes to CO2 emissions. That makes it abundantly clear that nuclear needs to be a part of the mix when it comes to non-emission generating energy production.
      • briandear 6 days ago |
        Any data on how much France has slowed the decrease of global temperatures? Is there a “nuclear power to degrees saved” converter?
        • insane_dreamer 6 days ago |
          someone could calculate the savings in CO2 emissions over all the power generated by nuclear energy each year in France, since the power stations were built, vs coal plants (which would have been the alternative at the time)
          • ZeroGravitas 5 days ago |
            They replaced oil burning plants in France, when the global oil supply got disrupted.

            If France had coal to burn they wouldn't have been burning oil in the first place.

        • palata 6 days ago |
          I can't say if this question is asked in good faith.

          Pretty obviously it's better than what the other European countries have been doing.

        • pyrale 5 days ago |
          France being about 1% of world's population, any effort won't make a huge dent in a global phenomenon. Also, that 1% pollutes a lot more than the average, so the efforts made on the electricity front are offset by other issues.
      • fsh 6 days ago |
        France has 12% of Europe's population, and its primary energy is 45% from fossil fuels and 40% from nuclear power. The effect on Europe as a whole is therefore pretty small.
        • realusername 6 days ago |
          France is simultaneously one of the most populated countries in the EU and the of the top transitioned countries, it does make a difference
        • thrance 6 days ago |
          I think you included transportation in your stats: planes, cars, trucks and boats. The electrical mix in France includes only 8% from fossil fuels, of which 7% come from natural gas. The rest is mostly nuclear, hydroelectric, wind and solar. In that order.

          France also regularly sells its surplus to neighboring countries.

          • masklinn 6 days ago |
            > France also regularly sells its surplus to neighboring countries.

            And in order to do that it has pretty massive lines to neighbours meaning it also acts as an exchange platform (for a profit) e.g. if there are strong winds it can buy electricity from an oversupplied german grid and sell it to italy.

            https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/24h provides live views of the european electricity grids, and France is the only country which is consistently green (and often dark green aka under 50gCO2eq/kWh) without being blessed with enough hydro for most or all of its requirements (as Iceland and Norway are).

            • elihu 6 days ago |
              Interesting to see they have data for Russia now. I think that's new.
          • fsh 6 days ago |
            Most countries use way more primary energy for heating and transportation than for electricity generation. It would be disingenuous not to include this.
            • RandomThoughts3 6 days ago |
              It’s fairly disingenuous to mix both actually when they don’t mingle. Especially when you consider that both heating and transportation are going in the direction of using more electricity which is actually favorable to the French choice.
              • globular-toast 6 days ago |
                Energy is energy. Why make a special category for heating and transport?
                • gmueckl 5 days ago |
                  It's because the energy sources, technical implementation and uses are so vastly different between the power grid, heating and transportation.
        • insane_dreamer 6 days ago |
          You're not counting the energy outflows from France to neighboring countries.

          Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%.

          • moooo99 6 days ago |
            > Also, France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear, not 40%.

            No, it gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear.

            • preisschild 5 days ago |
              Yeah, France could invest a lot more into nuclear-heat usage directly (e.g. for district heating or providing process heat to factories) without needing to convert it into Electricity first.
              • natmaka 5 days ago |
                France did invest into a new nuclear powerplant, and the result isn't enticing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plan...
                • moooo99 4 days ago |
                  That wasn‘t what was mentioned, it was specifically mentioned they should use more nuclear to heat, I.e. use exceeds heat for district heating for example.

                  This is fairly common for coal and gas power plants, but as far as I know, not really used with nuclear power plants.

                  As far as I know, the French nuclear power plants aren’t exactly in close proximity to any major city, making district heating most likely not economically viable

                  • natmaka 4 days ago |
                    It implies an adequate design, adapting (retrofit) an existing nuclear plant to such co-generation is very difficult.
                • preisschild a day ago |
                  That happens when you only build a SINGLE reactor unit after decades of building nothing. Keep improving the design (EPR2) and keep building and the costs and build times will come down.
                  • natmaka 18 hours ago |
                    > only build a SINGLE reactor unit after decades of building nothing

                    Nope.

                    The most recent nuclear reactor (Civaux-2) was delivered in France in 1999.

                    The project aiming at building an EPR in France (Flamanville) started in 2004, and it was a work-in-progress on the field in 2007. Where are those "decades"?

                    Moreover an EPR was sold to Finland before, and work started in 2005.

                    Then a pair was sold to China.

                    Then another pair to the U.-K.

                    All 6 are very late and have huge overcosts.

                    If those 6 are in your opinion a "SINGLE reactor" let's swap my single dollar for your six bucks.

                    Not to count attempts to stem other projects (even in France, at Penly) by offering it to India, Slovenia, USA through UniStar Nuclear, Czech Republic, United Arab Emirates... The prospect weren't thrilled by patent problems at then ongoing projects.

                    There was a tangible will. As usual this isn't sufficient to succeed.

      • barbazoo 6 days ago |
        Not sure if that still holds true nowadays with renewable energy and storage having got cheaper and cheaper.
        • realusername 6 days ago |
          The result speaks for themselves, Germany still hasn't reached France 90s levels of emissions.
          • pydry 6 days ago |
            Energiewende didnt start in 1973, it was first authorized in late 2010.

            France's nuclear program was also very, very expensive: https://www.i-sis.org.uk/The_True_Costs_of_French_Nuclear_Po...

            • kergonath 6 days ago |
              You can say whatever you want when discussion the cost of nuclear in France because of the structure of its nuclear industry. Part of it comes from the government’s budget, so depending on your point of view it can be accounted for differently. Then, there are externalities (pollution, greenhouse gases, etc). And then there are strategic aspects and associated costs. The alternative in the 1970s was skyrocketing oil, which is much more costly at the planet’s level, and was on track to be much more costly at the country’s level as well. And in the meantime, consumers got reasonably cheap and clean electricity for decades.

              Skimming your source, I would not trust it very much.

              • pydry 6 days ago |
                >The alternative in the 1970s was skyrocketing oil

                They imported and still import just as much oil as anyone else.

                • RandomThoughts3 6 days ago |
                  They in fact import far less gas than Germany and let’s not even look at coal.
            • pyrale 5 days ago |
              That article is extremely loaded. It bemoans every factor that made building nuclear a sensible choice, as if these factors were unfair and shouldn't have existed (with that logic, I guess Norway should never have built dams, and it's unfair that they have all these mountains). It also insists that France should have added a lot of burdensome process, which reminds me of CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual. Also bonus point for complaining about the Tennessee Valley Authority. I've read many articles about pricing the French nuclear fleet, but this was a first.

              For people interested about a real inquiry discussing the price of the french nuclear program [1] which is actually exhaustive and well documented.

              [1]: https://www.ccomptes.fr/sites/default/files/EzPublish/themat...

          • anton96 6 days ago |
            I have no clew how come the difference on what's usually said on this forum and the situation in Europe.My only understanding is that the US as whole is more sunny that gives a better ratio solar panel and produced electricity.

            Maybe also it's a provider thing ? From country to country, you can always have things that seem randomly more expensive. Germany is more renewable but more expensive than France, is it because of their national company is benefiting citizen properly or is it because the remaining gas part drives up the cost ?

            • thrance 6 days ago |
              Germany may use more renewables in volume, but it is absolutely dirtier than in France. Their electrical mix makes use of lots of natural gas and lignite coal, the worst kind, both expensive and very dirty.
              • qayxc 6 days ago |
                Compare to the PAST, not the present! As you can see, the trend is downwards and steadily at that: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris...

                Rome wasn't built in a day and I find it hilarious to advocate for nuclear power instead, if the average construction time (not even taking into account the prior mountain of bureaucracy) is over a decade. Not a single nuclear power plant built in past 15 years in Europe has been on time or on budget. Not even close.

                • masklinn 6 days ago |
                  > As you can see, the trend is downwards and steadily at that

                  Lignite numbers:

                  2019: 114TWh, 18.7%

                  2020: 92TWh, 16%

                  2021: 110TWh, 18.8%

                  2022: 116TWh, 20%

                  2023: 88TWh, 17%

                  I've seen steadier terminal alcoholics.

                  • Symbiote 5 days ago |
                    I think this graph from Wikipedia is better, as it goes back to 1990 [1].

                    Renewables have increased significantly, but much of that is displacing nuclear power. The remainder, plus a small increase in natural gas, his displaced hard coal and a small amount of lignite. Presumably hard coal is more expensive.

                    The overall trend is coal is reducing, but it's a poor show compared to Great Britain [2].

                    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany#...

                    [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_in_Great_Britain#/...

                    • masklinn 5 days ago |
                      > Presumably hard coal is more expensive.

                      Yeah, Germany did have hard coal mines but they closed a few years back as they've gotten too deep and difficult to access to be economically viable (and it was subsidised until 2018), so Germany imports hard coal. Meanwhile germany is either #1 or #2 lignite producer.

                • thrance 6 days ago |
                  Strategically speaking, Europe lacks the natural resources to build renewable, wind turbines and solar panels have to be imported, most of them from Asia.

                  Nuclear is still a bit cheaper per Watt and less carbon intensive, as it involves less infrastructure, logistics and batteries overall. It's also somewhat more reliable, as it doesn't depend on sun or wind (the former of which France often lacks).

                  Also, I am hopeful that nuclear power plant construction delays will only improve in the near future, as Europe rebuilds its expertise in nuclear engineering, which it lost after the past decades of anti-nuclear waves.

                  Finally, I don't see fossil fuel usage going down much in Germany in the link you gave, if at all. Which is the only thing that matters, ecologically speaking.

                  • Propelloni 5 days ago |
                    > Nuclear is still a bit cheaper per Watt

                    LCOE [1] of nuclear power in Europe and the USA is roughly thrice that of solar or wind [2]. In China it is about even. If you do not trust the Deutsche Bank report, the World Nuclear Association comes to roughly the same conclusion but assumes a lower discount, thus making nuclear power more attractive. [3]

                    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelized_cost_of_electricity [2] https://www.dbresearch.de/PROD/RPS_DE-PROD/PROD0000000000528... [3] https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/economic-aspec...

                    • thrance 5 days ago |
                      In France, the most recent report [1] by the Cour des comptes, our official accounting organ, still gives nuclear power as slightly cheaper than solar and wind.

                      I trust your data, but the situation here is different, most reactors are already built, and "only" need maintenance and fuel replacement.

                      I still stand by what I said in my previous comment about emissions per watts, etc.

                      [1] https://www.ccomptes.fr/sites/default/files/2021-12/20211213...

                      • natmaka 5 days ago |
                        This report is about the cost of production of AMORTIZED nuclear plants (moreover the real cost of France's nuclear fleet of reactor, including public money is a matter of debate). Comparing it to the total cost of new renewable is meaningless.
                    • sgt 2 days ago |
                      Is this based on cost per Watt without the expenses related to keeping the grid perfectly synchronized or not?

                      A significant and stable base load is important and it has shown that wind/solar makes it substantially more expensive to keep the grid stabilized, which is of course a no brainer if you don't want a blackout.

                      • Propelloni 2 days ago |
                        > Is this based on cost per Watt without the expenses related to keeping the grid perfectly synchronized or not?

                        It's the LCOE, you can read what it encompasses in the link I provided.

                        > A significant and stable base load is important and it has shown that wind/solar makes it substantially more expensive to keep the grid stabilized, which is of course a no brainer if you don't want a blackout.

                        I assume you mean the utility frequency [1] when you say "base load", because you said "synchronized" and "stabilized". The frequency indeed has to be stable with a rather small margin of tolerance. Today that's mostly a job for gas turbines, though. One can hope that we find ways to store all the surplus regenerative power soon, so that we can retire those, too. Nuclear power plants, in any case, are too slow for that purpose.

                        Just in case you really meant load, load has no requirement to be stable. The power demands at any time can be met by dispatchable power plants, but utilities like to plan long-term, so they use some averaged load over time to determine a "base load" and buy accordingly on the electricity market. That's prudent business practice, but there is no technical reason to run low-variability power plants because of that.

                        [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency

                        • sgt 2 days ago |
                          Thanks for clearing up the terminology. Good point regarding gas turbines.
            • masklinn 6 days ago |
              > Germany is more renewable but more expensive than France

              No, germany is more renewable but it's also more coal, any time there's no wind the coal plants start up. And they burn lignite (because that's what in germany e.g. that's what the Baggers strip mine).

              As a consequence, Germany's electricity emissions are absolute garbage: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE/12mo

              It's not as bad as Poland which basically runs entirely off of coal, but it's absolutely at the bottom of the european barrel.

              Also electricity storage still isn't much of a thing (and while germany has two pumped hydro station they have very little capacity), so in periods of high winds germany actually pays its neighbours to take electricity off its grid so it doesn't collapse (at this point it has hundreds of hours of negative spot prices every year).

              Which is getting problematic because increase in wind generation in said neighbours means the issue is spreading as they too need to get rid of their wind production at those times.

              • qayxc 6 days ago |
                > No, germany is more renewable but it's also more coal, any time there's no wind the coal plants start up.

                Hm. The actual facts say otherwise, though: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economic-Sectors-Enterpris...

                So number go DOWN, not up, is what I'm seeing.

                • masklinn 6 days ago |
                  > Hm. The actual facts say otherwise

                  They don't.

                  > So number go DOWN, not up, is what I'm seeing.

                  The comment I replied to is comparing germany to france. The map I linked literally tells you that in 2024 Germany generated 370g CO2 equivalent per kWh, where France generated 32, that's an objective number you can straight up read.

                  Yes Germany is 58% renewable versus France's 28 (something the map also tells you), but then 30% are gas and especially coal, the link you provide agrees with that. Coal is insanely polluting, especially because Germany mainly uses lignite which is the least energy rich coal (so even more emissions for the same production), coal represents >3/4th of its emissions.

                  Meanwhile gas is a minor component of france's electricity mix (pretty much just peaking plants and a few combined cycle district heating plants) and coal is a rounding error.

              • realusername 5 days ago |
                And the reality is even worse than that because France has 40% electricity heating whereas it's only 5% in Germany.
          • ZeroGravitas 6 days ago |
            • pyrale 5 days ago |
              The data you provide quotes Germany being 50% more polluting than France per-GDP-unit, at the level France was at in 2007.

              The issue with it is that dividing by GDP rather than, say, population or total energy used is kind of disingenuous. For instance, France's 2007 GDP can't be compared to Germany's 2022 GDP, so it's extremely hard to have an idea of what you're comparing.

              • ZeroGravitas 5 days ago |
                2007 is not in the 1990s which is the point I responded to. France was cleaning up in the 1990s but Germany is still doing better than France in even 1999. As you helpfully point out they were about France's 2007 level (when they had 70% nuclear electricity, 40% nuclear power, a hair below their absolute peak 41% nuclear which they hit a few years later) in 2022, so catching up to a global leader with lots of nuclear despite phasing out their own nuclear.

                You can see the per capita numbers on the same site and it's the same basic story, France had a head start but Germany is cleaning up faster (while growing GDP faster).

                One of the anti-German memes going around is that their decarbonisation is via deindustrialization, so per GDP helps avoid that accusation and adjusts for people importing their carbon as the country with the heavy industry gets paid.

                Meanwhile the USA, which has the most nuclear plants and yet is clearly worse than Germany and the EU average, somehow gets a free pass. How odd. It's as if we attack the countries (and states) that reduce carbon without nuclear rather than the ones emitting lots of carbon.

                • pyrale 5 days ago |
                  > so catching up to a global leader with lots of nuclear despite phasing out their own nuclear.

                  No catching up happened, because France also improved in the meantime, despite building no new plant in the 2007-2022 interval. And that's the issue with this measurement: it measures plenty of parasitic information. For instance, GDP growth between the 90's and now explains a large part of what you're highlighting.

                  Here's another chart from your site showing carbon intensity [1] which shows the improvement in carbon per energy generated is only a small part of the improvement shown in your graph.

                  And here's a chart [2] showing how GDP growth is the dominating factor for Germany's evolution in your graph.

                  [1]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/production-consumption-ca...

                  [2]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/kaya-identity-co2?country...

                  • natmaka 5 days ago |
                    > France also improved in the meantime, despite building no new plant in the 2007-2022 interval

                    Thanks to renewables: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-fossil-renewa...

                    • pyrale 4 days ago |
                      Renewables didn't move the needle since french electricity was already clean. Your graph shows that fossil didn't move over the time period.

                      The difference has been cleaner energy use (e.g. better car motors) and cleaner production on non-electric energy.

                      • natmaka 4 days ago |
                        Renewables did compensate nuclear's underproduction: without them France would have burnt more fossil fuels.

                        Moreover ~60% of France's final energy is obtained by burning fossil fuels => France must electrify (replace fossil fuel by electricity) => produce more gridpower => deploy new gridpower-producing equipment and such heavy industry thingies cannot be built overnight.

                        Upon an economic viewpoint electrifying is facilitated by the sheer availability of low-priced electricity.

                        • pyrale 2 days ago |
                          It feels like you've got your answer and are looking for a way to find the fit problem.

                          > Renewables did compensate nuclear's underproduction

                          The underproduction episode in 2022 was mostly handled thanks to imports and consumer sobriety.

                          > Moreover ~60% of France's final energy is obtained by burning fossil fuels

                          Yeah, that's my point. France would be better served by electrifying its non-electric energy usages rather than trying to replace one clean production by another.

                          > => deploy new gridpower-producing equipment and such heavy industry thingies cannot be built overnight.

                          France has a healthy margin before needing to rush production, with electricity usage going down for two decades, and a significant share of its power being exported currently.

                          • natmaka 18 hours ago |
                            >> Renewables did compensate nuclear's underproduction

                            > The underproduction episode in 2022 was mostly handled thanks to imports and consumer sobriety.

                            Source?

                            > France would be better served by electrifying its non-electric energy usages rather than trying to replace one clean production by another.

                            I disagree:

                            Renewables-produced electricity reduces fossil the amount -fuel-produced electricity: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/electricity-fossil-renewa...

                            A large part of resources needed by electrification isn't needed to build electricity-producing equipment.

                            Producing more electricity enables us to contain its price, boosting electrification.

                            Starting right now to build in order to replace 40-years old nuclear plants (on average) seems adequate to me. New nuclear (Flamanville-3 EPR) isn't adequate (6x times overcostly, at least 12 years late).

                            > France has a healthy margin before needing to rush production,

                            Electrification has to ramp up, therefore if everything goes as planned it will soon be over. Waiting is dangerous.

                            > with electricity usage going down for two decades

                            Production nearly-flat from 2004 until COVID: https://ourworldindata.org/energy-production-consumption

                            > a significant share of its power being exported currently.

                            The challenge (getting rid of fossil fuels and the necessary powergrid, see ENTSO-e) is at continental-scale.

                            • pyrale 9 hours ago |
                              > Renewables-produced electricity reduces fossil the amount -fuel-produced electricity

                              Why the hell would you show me the same graph I showed you earlier, but with only 3 years of history? That graph, over time, shows that fossil hovers around 10%, has been for decades now. Renewables is not decreasing fossil use here.

                              > A large part of resources needed by electrification isn't needed to build electricity-producing equipment.

                              As France is a market economy, the issue isn't resources, money is.

                              > Starting right now to build in order to replace 40-years old nuclear plants

                              Here is the issue: you don't give a fuck about CO2, all you care about is for renewables to replace nuclear, another clean energy source. All of your discourse is warped and dishonest because you want to pretend that you care about catbon emissions when, in fact, you don't.

                              If you cared about carbon emissions you would focus on means to lower carbon emissions: electrifiying.

                              • natmaka 5 hours ago |
                                > Why the hell would you show me the same graph

                                I quoted it 4 days ago (see above). I propose my interpretation of it, for the objective reader to make his mind. Renewables' share is up, therefore they replace fossil fuels because without renewables France should burn more fossil fuels.

                                >> A large part of resources needed by electrification isn't needed to build electricity-producing equipment.

                                > As France is a market economy, the issue isn't resources, money is.

                                If in your opinion each and every resource (expertise, material...) used to deploy electricity-producing plants is 100% adequate for electrifying let's say we live in distinct universes.

                                > Here is the issue: you don't give a fuck

                                No arguments, therefore you rant about what (in your opinion) I think. This is moot.

                                > If you cared about carbon emissions you would focus on means to lower carbon emissions: electrifiying.

                                I already explained, above, why deploying electricity-producing plants is just as important and urgent. You didn't even try to counter-argument.

                                • pyrale an hour ago |
                                  > Renewables' share is up, therefore they replace fossil fuels because without renewables France should burn more fossil fuels.

                                  Once again the declining share is nuclear. Fossils are stable as the data you quote shows.

                                  > If in your opinion each and every resource (expertise, material...) used to deploy electricity-producing plants is 100% adequate for electrifying

                                  My point is that this is irrelevant since the bottleneck is money. We don't live in a command economy where material resources and workers are assigned by the state on a given project.

                                  > You didn't even try to counter-argument.

                                  Why would I try when we're at the point where you don't even acknowledge raw data?

        • aziaziazi 6 days ago |
          What storage are you referring too? I see residential ones in houses but absolutely nothing of state-scale, which is necessary to keep industries and services running.

          Materials used for current storage technologies are expected to see demand skyrocket. We’re still to see the renewables going further than the residential proof of concept on a society scale.

          God bless plutonium.

          • kieranmaine 6 days ago |
            The CAISO (California Independent System Operator) grid is a good example of large scale battery use (1). Texas is also seeing a ramp up of battery storage (2).

            Whilst battery demand will increase it's expected costs will continue to decrease - "Innovation reduces total capital costs of battery storage by up to 40% in the power sector by 2030 in the Stated Policies Scenario"(3)

            1. https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2024-11-27 2. https://modoenergy.com/research/ercot-battery-energy-storage... 3. https://www.iea.org/reports/batteries-and-secure-energy-tran...

          • barbazoo 6 days ago |
            > Materials used for current storage technologies are expected to see demand skyrocket.

            We haven't even specified what kind of storage technology we're talking about yet you already state that "materials used for current storage technologies are expected to see demand skyrocket". Are you referring to batteries? There are countless other technologies to "store" energy.

          • CalRobert 6 days ago |
            Eh… plutonium? I think uranium is the usual choice.

            Home batteries can be part of a grid level response but this is nascent.

            • rsynnott 6 days ago |
              France, unusually, actually does, or at least did, use significant amounts of plutonium (a combo of decommissioned weapons and nuclear reprocessing output) in nuclear energy generation, but yeah, primarily uranium.
        • kergonath 6 days ago |
          New renewable installations are getting cheaper, but are still far from being numerous enough to overcome their terrible load factor and enable switching off some baseline production plants. And storage at a grid level is pretty much inexistant, except for a couple of pumped hydro plants.

          There is a significant mismatch between reality and the kind of headlines we see in tech-focused media. These hype future products as if they were already widely available, which creates a false idea of the actual situation in the real world.

          • Symbiote 6 days ago |
            Britain has switched off its coal plants.

            At least some of that is surely because of renewable power, mostly wind.

            • p_l 6 days ago |
              And because solar and wind power boost sales of gas turbine power plants that can spin fast enough to react for the wind and solar instability
        • himinlomax 5 days ago |
          You'd need to be able to store WEEKS of electricity to make wind+solar work.

          Currently, battery grid-scale storage stores seconds.

          You'd need an increase of several orders of magnitude for this to work.

          Even if manufacturing costs were magically 0, the amount of lithium, copper and other materials required would be unsustainable.

          It's not going to happen.

          • therealdrag0 5 days ago |
            Do you have any source elaborating on that?
          • GrzegorzWidla 4 days ago |
            Do you realise that German government, European Union and independent third parties have all published scientific estimates as to how much storage is needed and no, it’s not for weeks?

            You don’t use lithium for long term energy storage. You just have very shallow understanding of issues at hand.

      • layer8 6 days ago |
        Germany’s net power grid imports are less than 5% (17% imports vs. 12.5% exports in 24H1), despite having no active nuclear power plants anymore. Around 60% of their domestically generated power currently comes from renewables (up 8% from last year). I don’t think it’s abundantly clear.
        • draven 5 days ago |
          CO2 equiv from https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/24h:

          France: 40g/kWh Germany 557g/kWh

          If the goal is decarbonation, using wind+solar is alright (renewables are a bigger part of the mix in Germany) but burning gas and lignite when there's no sun or wind is not.

        • pyrale 5 days ago |
          Net balance over long time periods isn't very interesting: it doesn't tell you what happens on the market and who needs the trade to happen. What you need to look at is whether these exports are correlated with peaks in production or peaks in usage.
        • fransje26 5 days ago |
          Ah, the well loved trick of playing with statistics to make something look good.

          The current carbon intensity per KWh in Germany is 526g, vs 50g for France.

          The average yearly carbon intensity per KWh in Germany, is 354g.

          So, either the rest 40% of domestically generated power are hyper-polluting, or the other statistics don't hold up.

          Either way, with such a high carbon intensity, there is nothing to brag about.

          And that's before entering the discussion about how the repercussions of the poor long-term German energy plan is currently killing their economy, and, indirectly, their social fabric.

          • Aachen 5 days ago |
            Where do you find the current value? Since it's rather different from the yearly average, it sounds like it's (close to) live and I've been looking for live production stats (more granular than "what was it yesterday") but couldn't find it
          • fransje26 5 days ago |
            Ah, and let's not forget the "issue" of zero solar & wind days, as happened at the beginning of the month, with 20 GW missing..
        • Aachen 5 days ago |
          This could be very misleading

          > net power grid imports are less than 5% (17% imports vs. 12.5% exports in 24H1)

          depending on when those happen. If they import French electricity whenever the wind is taking a break from blowing, that prevents craptons of pollution (including, but far from exclusively, CO2) from the massive German coal plant I live near to. If it's more random, say if it's just helping with some peaks when everyone's making bratwurst and coal currently doesn't cut it, then it's not reducing them from running

          There are also times where we hear electricity prices are negative or near zero for a time, afaik usually caused by too much wind-based production. Exporting that may balance the thing out so that the net value is near zero

          I'm sure it'll be some mix of those and other scenarios, but I'm not sure that looking at the net result says very much about whether nuclear electricity exports helped reduce emissions in surrounding countries like Germany. I'm more inclined to say the claim of the person you're responding to is likely correct (though I'd say "helpful to be" part of the mix, rather than "needs to be")

      • immibis 6 days ago |
        Usually in a sentence like "X makes it abundantly clear that Y" X should be some kind of objective fact, not speculation.
      • dasKrokodil 5 days ago |
        Let's see... nuclear power is super expensive, relies on finite uranium resources and there is no safe solution to store the waste. Do we really want to rely on this?
        • johanneskanybal 5 days ago |
          What other clean solution for variable reliable power do you know of?
        • Aachen 5 days ago |
          Keep in mind that we should be comparing "super expensive" with climate adaptation consequences, as well as factoring in that e.g. Europe could collaborate and drive down reactor costs with economies of scale where we don't all need to independently reinvent how to build these things

          I'm happy for any energy (not just electricity) mix that ends up with a reasonable total cost, adding up current investments needed and future adaptation measures. The problem with ruling out a clean and safe energy source for irrational fears is that it delays net zero (higher future adaptation costs) and requires spending more on alternative solutions to guarantee a steady power supply (higher current investments)

          Wind and solar are currently much cheaper per kWp (opportunistic production) and so it seems like the quicker way to net zero, and during the first bit (where we are currently at) that's definitely true. The problem shifts when we want to actually stop using things like gas to make up the difference. Afaik we need to go quite a way beyond what cost-effective pumped hydro locations can supply in most of Europe, so we need to look beyond 2030 and think what power sources we need to have ready by, say, 2040 or 2050, start making specific plans, and break ground on whatever solution is the best compromise

          (I'm expecting some people to object to saying nuclear is not rationally dangerous. Please, prove me wrong! I'm happy to update my opinions based on non-cherry-picked data. I've previously looked into the cost in human health (not just deaths) of different energy sources, including dependencies such as uranium mining which is among the worst aspects. The only reliable data I've been able to find shows fission on par with renewables — iirc tending towards being safer, but probably not beyond the error margins due to the low percentage of nuclear energy)

          Edit: on the other hand, I'm afraid that this nuclear discussion (especially with germans, I say that as a foreigner living in Germany so I've heard different perspectives) only serves to divide the people who at least understand there is something we should be doing about climate change. I'm happy to compromise if that lets us finally settle on a concrete plan that'll land us in a place we want to be

        • preisschild 5 days ago |
          > nuclear power is super expensive

          That is debatable, nuclear power can be really cheap when managed correctly. See for example Ontario, Canada or France during the 70s-90s.

          Many nuclear power plants can have life times of more than 8 decades and only the initial build and licensing is the expansive part, so if you average the cost over the total life time it is rather cheap.

          https://www.iea.org/reports/projected-costs-of-generating-el...

          > relies on finite uranium resources

          https://whatisnuclear.com/nuclear-sustainability.html

          > there is no safe solution to store the waste

          If its so unsafe, why has there not been a single major accident with used fuel from civilian nuclear power plants? We have been using hundreds of NPPs for decades, yet not a single fatality.

          The truth is, nuclear waste can be and is managed safely.

          See:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_cask_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBS-3

        • ziotom78 5 days ago |
          “Super expensive” for who builds them, or "super expensive" for the end user paying their electricity bill?

          Also, there are safe solutions to store nuclear waste. They are not 1.0e31% secure, but many other kinds of power plants carry significant risks [1] [2] [3]

          [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam

          [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmington_Mine_disaster

          [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Connecticut_power_plant_e...

          • marcosdumay 5 days ago |
            It's either expensive to the person paying the bill or to the person paying tax to subsidize it.

            That's what "super expensive" means.

            And yeah, most of it comes from the cost of building them. But they are barely competitive with solar + batteries if you count only the costs of operating them.

        • insane_dreamer 4 days ago |
          > super expensive

          cheaper than dealing with climate change

          > finite uranium resources

          we're not going to run out anytime soon, unlike oil

          > no safe solution to store the waste

          yes, there are

          It's not the perfect solution for sure. But solar/wind/water isn't going to get us to where we need to be fast enough.

          One day we'll figure our fusion and can shut down all our fission plants.

    • vr46 6 days ago |
      I was hoping to see a giant red line going from France directly into CERN, as Geneva (last I heard) was unable to supply them the power they needed.
    • kuschku 5 days ago |
      The map is purely a simulation, not actual data. That's why the map has nuclear powerplants in Germany still producing power.
  • cynicalsecurity 6 days ago |
    Russians taking notes.
    • openrisk 6 days ago |
      Thats why the more decentralized the more resilient. No single point of failure, redundancy in routing. Ahh, yes. just like the internet used to be :-)
    • wongarsu 6 days ago |
      If the Russians don't already have agents in most major power companies their intelligence service is slacking
  • t55 6 days ago |
    Rendering could be more performant, but pretty graphs!
  • fulafel 6 days ago |
    The highlighted saturated links are a nice touch.
  • throw0101a 6 days ago |
    Meta: for those unfamiliar, 1.21 GW is a reference to the 1985 movie Back to the Future. Clip of the scene in question:

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDuZqYeNiOA

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future

    If you haven't seen it, the entire trilogy is worth checking out: very fun and quite family friendly.

    • w-m 6 days ago |
      If you are a regular HN reader who is (or was until this post) unfamiliar with Back to the Future, I'd love to know three more random facts about your life. In my world view, you are part of a fascinatingly small group of people.
      • parhamn 6 days ago |
        Part 3 came out in 1990. So, anyone born after (less than 34 years old) who didn't bother to go back and watch it, would be sufficient? I'm familiar with the series' existence, but had no idea what 1.21 reference was. AMA, hah.
      • irrational 6 days ago |
        I have kids that are in their late 20s. They never watch older movies unless someone forces them to. There is so much new media coming out that they don’t feel the need to watch older movies, even if everyone is telling them it is very good.
        • xandrius 6 days ago |
          Couldn't you put that media on when they were kids?

          I know movie nights are not a thing every family does but I'd imagine having one day modern movie, one day oldish from 80-90a, another day a classic from the 40s, etc.

          Wouldn't that have worked if you started from when they were young?

          I'm just thinking as that is my plan for when/it I have kids: mix older media with new one and just enjoy it with them. If it is truly good and not just nostalgia, they should be enjoyable even as a rewatch.

          • irrational 3 days ago |
            I could have, but honestly I watch very little media and the few times I sit down to watch a movie, it has been something new that catches my eye.
      • wrboyce 6 days ago |
        I’ve been on the BTTF ride at… wherever in Florida it is, and I loved that as a teenager. The films just never really appealed though for some reason. I guess one related fact would be I have a lot of gaps like that in the movies I have seen. For instance, people are often shocked that I’ve never see any of the Indiana Jones movies (also loved the rides!); but Star Wars I could probably recite the scripts of.

        I don’t think I have any other facts that are very interesting, but then again I didn’t think not having seen BTTF was all that interesting either. For the record I was familiar with 1.21GW and what it related to… I don’t live under a rock!

      • nakedneuron 6 days ago |
        +2
      • swatcoder 6 days ago |
        Since the franchise hasn't been rebooted like so many others, it hasn't seem the $$$ marketing that would introduce it to new generations.

        Like The Princess Bride or Labyrinth, BTTF currently remains a phenomenom of the 80's and 90's -- familiar to most from that time and deeply treasured by some, but not refreshed and sustained the way the Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel/DC, etc brands have been.

    • kubanczyk 6 days ago |
      I thought they mean "jiggawatts" in the movie, i.e. more than bazzillion watts. Where do people pronounce gigawatts like that?
      • hollerith 6 days ago |
        On movie sets back when no one used "giga-" in daily conversation.
      • seszett 6 days ago |
        The French dub is famous (in France of course) for saying gigowatts.

        Giga just wasn't as commonly used an SI prefix as it is now I guess.

    • CalRobert 6 days ago |
      I’d love to normalise pronouncing gigabyte as jigabyte
    • ZeroGravitas 5 days ago |
      And if you're an HN reader and already know and love Back to the Future, then the Captain Disillusion's 2 part YouTube video about how the visual effects used ground breaking computer control of cameras to advance the state of the art is a good recommendation:

      https://youtu.be/AtPA6nIBs5g?si=QidOC7VEn6mxXjBK

  • post-it 6 days ago |
    Something I've wondered for a while: if the whole continent is on a synchronized grid, how can countries tell to or from whom they're exporting and importing electricity. I can see how they can measure their total imports or exports by comparing generation to consumption, but how do they figure out which neighbour they're getting electricity from / sending it to?
    • Filligree 6 days ago |
      By measuring current flows across the wires.
    • dismalaf 6 days ago |
      You don't. You guess based on generation, consumption and where the power lines are hooked up.
      • Gud 6 days ago |
        Absolutely false. Current flow is metered using current transformers.

        full disclosure: I install high voltage switchgear for a living.

        • dismalaf 6 days ago |
          Seeing current flow through switches isn't the same as seeing specifically where your power is coming from.

          Like, if power from several different sources flows into a single substation before it goes to your home, you know exactly which source created the electricity you're using?

          And if I purchase power from a 100% renewable company, is it always only electricity from their generators, never ever mixed in with power from other grid sources during downtime?

          No, it's just best estimates based on generation, consumption and flow.

          That's like taking a bucket of water out of the ocean and saying you know where it came from. Sure, it might have come from the nearest estuary, but odds are it got mixed in with water that originated somewhere else.

          • rightbyte 6 days ago |
            Kirchoff's laws applies though. It should be possible to calculate where the power in your outlet comes from for the power line operators.
          • fulafel 6 days ago |
            Electricity transmission is a bit like water pressure and distribution. You're not going to get the same electrons (or water molecules) that you subscribed to from various producers in the distribution network put in, the flow causality and the physical embodiments of production are different though related things.
            • caf 6 days ago |
              Since your supply is alternating current, the electrons aren't net moving at all.

              The question isn't even well-formed. It's like playing tug-of-war and asking exactly which player on the other team you're pulling against.

          • Gud 6 days ago |
            I don’t understand what anything you wrote has to do with the topic at hand,

            But I can tell you, each line is measured closely and billed accordingly. There is no guessing.

    • cjrp 6 days ago |
      Do you mean, for example, that the UK is importing energy from France, but where are they importing it from?
    • skagenpilot 6 days ago |
      There are five synchronous areas in Europe, the largest one being the synchronous grid of continental Europe [1].

      Each national grids has interconnections with other grids and you can measure the flow of power through these interconnections to know who is sending electricity or getting electricity from neighbours.

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_grid_of_Continenta...

    • fsh 6 days ago |
      You can measure the flow of power by calculating the vector product of the current and voltage in the power line. EEVblog has a very good explanation video how this is done in an (analog) domestic watt-hour meter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3DXcB9-xE
    • fulafel 6 days ago |
      For completeness - that's just one grid included in this viz, for the map of the different european grids see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_grid_of_Continenta...

      (Russia is another big chunk of Europe but not included in the above map, though I think it may be the same grid with the Baltics)

      For the question, measuring the flow of electricity is just normal power engineering, your home electricity meter does it as well. It's not so much the countries doing it though.

    • locallost 6 days ago |
      It's a fair question. Energy charts has both the physical flows and trading charts for Germany.

      E.g. trading https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&...

      Physical flows https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&...

      And it's not the same, so sometimes there is just "transit", although transit here should I guess be understood very loosely. I also assume they just know who paid for what.

      Edit: although upon re-reading I think you probably asked something else. Sorry in that case.

      • cafeinux 6 days ago |
        Disclaimer: I'm working for an actor in the electricity market, although not on the business side so I don't know everything about it.

        They do know who paid for what. And actually anyone is able to know. It's a very regulated market, and most of its data is published, although I have to admit that if you don't know how to fetch it and read it, it's a bit hard to figure out by yourself.

        You should be able to find published data on the ACER Remit Portal (https://www.acer-remit.eu/portal/home), ENTSO-E Transparency Platform (https://m-transparency.entsoe.eu/) and JAO website, Market Data tab (https://www.jao.eu).

    • unfixed 6 days ago |
      Each country works as a free market (inside a rails defined by their national agencies), where energy providers aim to offer a price low enough to be among the cheapest to cover the energy consumption forecast.

      For those countries connected, those providers can participate in other markets. France power plants can sell energy to Spain, but not to Portugal.

      The trick here is that the price each opperator's offer is somewhat calculated based on opportunity cost. Wind turbines has no opportunity cost, since not selling the energy generated from the wind now does not make them able to sell it in the future (that energy can not be stored at industrial level). Then, all the accepted offers for a given forecast are paid at the price of the most expensive offer among them.

    • pyrale 5 days ago |
      > how can countries tell to or from whom they're exporting and importing electricity.

      In terms of market deals, TSOs can't really do that. What can be done is measure the power flowing in lines connecting two grids, and summing them you get the total power exported from one grid to another.

  • coreyp_1 6 days ago |
    I get irrationally angry when a map is skewed in this way and there is no way to change it. The more you zoom in, the worse the distortion is made to be. Even zooming all the way out does not eliminate the angular distortion. This took actual effort on some programmer's part! Who ever thought that this is a good idea?!?

    It's like those navigational mini maps (car or computer game) that won't keep north pointing up... only worse.

    • socksy 6 days ago |
      Also got annoyed by this, but worked out pretty quickly that if you hold down right click and drag then you can change the angle
      • Timwi 5 days ago |
        There is no right-click on phones.
        • spotplay 5 days ago |
          On most mobile maps, you can adjust the angle by dragging up or down with two fingers.
    • _Microft 6 days ago |
      You can also change the perspective by simultaneously holding the Ctrl key and moving the mouse.
      • progval 6 days ago |
        Or move the cursor while right-clicking.
    • locallost 6 days ago |
      Don't get angry so much over minor things, your older self will thank you. Somebody did something for free, gave it to you for free, and so they did not do a perfect job. There are worse things in life.
    • poniko 6 days ago |
      Two fingers scroll on mobile.
      • therealdrag0 5 days ago |
        I had to use three fingers on my iPhone.
    • xandrius 6 days ago |
      Angry or slightly annoyed? Because if angry is the right emotion then there might be some other underlying causes and this is just a trigger for them.
      • rcrossf 6 days ago |
        Indignant, actually.
      • teo_zero 6 days ago |
        > if angry is the right emotion

        Of course it's not, haven’t you noticed they said "irrationally"?

      • szszrk 6 days ago |
        That is "slightly" nitpicking, isn't it?

        On a bit slower computer it took me a few minutes to locate my capital - found some tiny cities around it, yet still had no idea what direction I am looking at. Lack of major city names (until zoomed far) or that grey map (especially combined with screen "night shift" mode) style didn't help as well. Or the lack of a few important power plants around me.

        At least major power lines were there - that was actually very cool. The whole thing is great, but readability is just bad.

  • ramon156 6 days ago |
    > we can delete most of the emissions of the developed world today by switching heating & car and truck transport to electrical

    Don't forget the fact that we need batteries to store the power, which is a much more annoying problem.

    • wongarsu 6 days ago |
      Heating and transport are the easiest in that regard. Most trucks drive during the day have the driver resting during the night. At night there's little demand, but wind and nuclear continue generating, so from a grid standpoint that's the perfect time to charge all the trucks. Cars can similarly be mostly charged during the night, as that's when they are at home. Heat demand is more variable, but heat is much easier to store than electricity itself. Everyone with a boiler already has a heat store at home. If you make the boiler a bit larger you can configure it to only heat when there's excess electricity (typically the night or at peak solar power around noon). And that's before you start with more efficient heat storage devices, like heating sand instead of water.

      All of those solutions require infrastructure investments and smarter grids (likely with real-time pricing to incentivize consumers to use power when there's an excess, and an API so devices like chargers and boilers can act on this information without user input). But they don't require power storage at the grid level.

  • praveen9920 6 days ago |
    One observation I could make from the visualization is that major cities have very big power generation centers, despite that they seem to be drawing power from surrounding areas. It is very apparent near London. I guess it is obvious that bigger cities have more demand from both industrial and residential consumption.
  • danbtl 6 days ago |
    Was this made with a visualization library? Or is this custom code on top of Mapbox?
  • hughes 6 days ago |
    Hugged to death? Map is not loading.

    Edit: Loaded after a few refreshes. Slowness relates to loading static assets from coppersushi.herokuapp.com

  • zwaps 6 days ago |
    (German) offshore seems to be missing
  • bschne 6 days ago |
    Someone also set up a bunch of Graphana dashboards with European electricity data at https://energygraph.info/
  • roschdal 6 days ago |
    Don't share this map of the power grid, or the terrorists will use it to end us all.
    • kubanczyk 6 days ago |
      A map is not a territory.
  • KennyBlanken 6 days ago |
    Impressive - Norway and Sweden are exporting ~6GW right now with Finland throwing in for another GW.

    Probably contributing to the high percentage of EV sales. In Finland 90% of new vehicle sales are EVs. Sweden and Norway are at ~%60, and have a greater share of PHEVs.

    "EVs, they're gonna be a bloodbath" and "they don't work in the cold", indeed /s

    Never seems to occur to people that "I don't ever have to stand outside in the cold pumping gas into my car" and "I can have my car warmed up by the time I get in to go somewhere" are really popular features.

    Also, they didn't build out their EV charging infrastructure via legal settlement, leading to having chargers owned and operated by a company ambivalent about maintenance and repair.

    Europe as a whole is 24%, rising at a good clip. Also surprising is Romania - ahead of everyone except the Scandinavian countries and way, way ahead of all the former soviet states.

  • hokkos 6 days ago |
    My visualisation of physical flow between countries or zones, you can see the net flow with arrow of relative size and colors :

    https://energygraph.info/d/7dWs1mVVk/interconnect-physical-f...

    • gharlan 6 days ago |
      This is really cool! What specific data source(s) are used in the wind turbine charge factors view?
      • hokkos 5 days ago |
        ECMWF ERA5 meteo data, and PyPSA/atlite to convert it to charge factor, with OSM data for the turbine location.
        • gharlan 4 days ago |
          Thanks!
  • internet_points 6 days ago |
    Is it missing hydroelectric?
  • giardini 6 days ago |
    Where's the Gibraltar Wave Farm?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_Wave_Farm

    Perhaps omitted since Gibraltar is a British possession and therefore not in the EU?

    • ndsipa_pomu 5 days ago |
      Unlikely that reason as Britain itself is included in the map
  • oidar 6 days ago |
    Interesting that Corsica isn't connected.
    • pyrale 5 days ago |
      Corsica is connected to the Italian grid.

      This map is simply based on a research paper where not every connection appears (notably, I don't see the 63/90 kv grid in France).

  • fzeindl 6 days ago |
    A specialty in austria (in the middle of the map) is pumped-storage hydroelectricity. Since there are so many mountains and valleys, lakes are used as giant batteries. Water can be pumped up in times of excessive supply and released to produce energy when there's higher demand.

    This keeps the power lines stable and compensates for factors like lack of wind in wind power stations, startup/shutdown times of thermal power plants, differing consumption patterns because of colder weather etc.

    • masklinn 5 days ago |
      Pumped hydro is great but it requires very specific topologies (you need a large lower reservoir or a high flow river below the dam to have water to pump back up), it’s even more rare than good hydro locations, and completely artificial PHS à la Taum Sauk county are nearly unique.

      Worldwide, Switzerland is the main user and beneficiary of PHS relative to its electric capacity. Total it’s China, Japan, and the USA, they’re the only countries breaking 2 figures (in GW of generating capacity).

  • mhotchen 5 days ago |
    This is super cool. Found myself learning a few things about the power grid and of my country, and I spent some time looking in to the energy market off the back of this
  • svara 5 days ago |
    This visualization is super strange, you'd think the thickness of the lines would scale with Watts, but that doesn't seem to be the case? What does it represent then? Super confusing and pretty misleading.
  • rjmunro 5 days ago |
    It's a nice UI, and there is interesting data in there, but I think it is just an static estimate of averages, rather than something linked to actual live data like http://gridwatch.co.uk/ or https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/

    It's not super clear. It says it's using 2 hour slots, but there's no clock saying when it was last updated or anything.

    • sixthDot 5 days ago |
      Also the name of the power plants is missing, on top of the fact that the data is outdated. For example after a little check I see that the Fessenheim PP (France) is still represented, although it's not producing anymore.
    • preisschild 5 days ago |
    • seb1204 5 days ago |
    • walski 5 days ago |
      Form their website:

      > The math behind it is real, and it uses the same calculations that real grid operators use to keep the lights on. However, the amount of power that each power plant actually produces depends on the price they offer. This price varies wildly from hour to hour, and neither the price nor the power amount is publicly available.

      > Instead, pypsa-eur makes assumptions on prices for solar, wind, coal, nuclear, etc. based on historical averages, and then runs an optimisation algorithm to cover all consumption for the least cost of production.

  • philipwhiuk 5 days ago |
    It's worth noting that it's a prediction, not a monitoring tool.
  • zb10948 5 days ago |
    This map is incomplete. We have 1 GW capacity of hydro chained in 3-4 power plants on just 20-30kms of river near our city, its nowhere to be found on this map.
  • awinter-py 5 days ago |
    that wind farm sending 1 gw into scotland from norway is striking