• jimbob45 2 days ago |
    My guess is that they’re trying to do it temporarily to boost sales for the WC bundle they’re in as a bonus perk. Blizzard, however, lost the assumption of goodwill by their customers years ago and resultantly, this will not be taken well.
    • yupyupyups 2 days ago |
      Mainstream gaming is borderline masochistic.

      We keep hearing influencers and journalists talking about the various ways games companies screw over their customers. Yet, here we are, and Blizzard is alive and well, and the complaining continues. Is it that gamers like getting abused or is the drama exaggerated?

      • 9x39 2 days ago |
        The highly passionate crowd is usually just outnumbered by the growth of the market, maybe: new people every year either age in or are drawn in.

        At the same time, maybe people do like being abused even if they won’t admit if it means going back to the brands that gave them the dopamine hits early on. There aren’t enough substitutes out there for most to walk away.

    • definitelyauser 2 days ago |
      To be fair, Warcraft does need a remaster.

      Have you tried replaying it? You can't even RMB to move units, you need to click the move icon then select where.

      Warcraft 2 does not (imho), and last time I tried it, Warcraft 2 BNE still worked just fine, so that's probably getting shut down now.

  • mdtrooper 2 days ago |
    Well, I remember the "Cease and desist" to FreeCraft project in 2003 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratagus
    • vanderZwan 2 days ago |
      On the other hand, the project still exists and the engine has been modded to play these games, although apparently Warcraft 1 in particular is still a buggy mess:

      https://stratagus.com/

      ... but perhaps more people will try to help out fixing those bugs, purely out of spite.

  • hipadev23 2 days ago |
    I’m really confused what venn diagram they think exists with sizable overlap of “wants to play war1 and war2 again” and “doesn’t mind a greedy company killing off old products to funnel users to re-releases”

    No thanks Blizzard, my soundcard works perfectly.

    • wiseowise 2 days ago |
      Oh, believe me, there’s plenty of those.
    • Macha 2 days ago |
      WoW seems to have passed its local minimum, partly due to no longer being a single game anymore with classic and the seasonal editions. I can see them thinking remasters are a way to get a few more tie in franchise sales from those players, maybe somewhat cheaply. Throw in a tie-in mount/whatever for WoW and you'll have players buy it without any intention of actually playing it.
  • Refusing23 2 days ago |
    It's no wonder

    seeing as they just released the remastered version.

    though it can still be picked up for free on various abandonware sites and archive

  • proc0 2 days ago |
    Well I bought WC2 already and have the files. That's the best part of GOG, you can just make your own backup.

    I think with hard copies going away, the ability to make backups of what you buy should be protected by law, at least for software that is no longer supported (of course one side effect is that all games become services, but there have been single player games recently that prove it's still a good business model).

    We have seen enough cases of how digital copies are ultimately a way for companies to "erase history", so to speak, and this is detrimental not just to consumers but the wider culture. Hard copies was a way to guard against this, but ultimately it is all software anyway, and digital copies should provide a way to truly own what you buy (if it's a one time buy product).

    • lrem 2 days ago |
      For a very long time “hard copies” were just a physical precache of the download. What you actually paid for was the online store code inside the box. I’ve stopped buying boxes after the second one like this.
      • Aachen 2 days ago |
        The software I bought on CD/DVD was never like that unless you mean needing to contact some activation server. As far as I know, things like the Switch game cartridges are also real (presumably with a similar asterisk). The only annoying things are these installers nowadays you download for e.g. Chrome or, a bit longer ago, Flash, not so much the things sold as copy to own (resellable)

        I wouldn't discourage people from buying owned copies, especially when they can find an option free of DRM

        • lrem a day ago |
          CD? Sure, that was entirely in the good era. But the last two games I bought on DVD (something forgotten from EA I think and the nice Mass Effect Trilogy boxset) were what I described - store codes printed in the box, can use the attached physical media to save on downloading time.
    • pshirshov 2 days ago |
      Usually you don't "buy" DRM-protected stuff but lease it.
      • proc0 a day ago |
        Right, that's the core of the problem. Piracy is indeed part of the reason the industry moves in this direction, but it's a solution that comes at a huge cost to the consumer, and as a consequence to the industry in the long term.
    • BlueTemplar 2 days ago |
      Ideally DRM would be banned, as it's in fine a danger for liberal democracy. But there are very powerful interests (including at the state level) that consider DRM worth having even to 'protect' something as trifling in comparison as commercial leisure products.

      So I guess we're stuck with personally avoiding DRMed (including online only) media, and supporting the likes of EFF, GoG, and https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

      See also :

      https://technologizer.com/2012/01/23/why-history-needs-softw...

      • proc0 a day ago |
        Right, piracy is a real issue here, but I think DRM and making games a SAAS hurts the industry in the long run. I'm still not convinced it's such an issue that it requires these methods of control. Indie games are constantly releasing titles that do well and become huge. If a game is good it will do well regardless because there will be enough people who pay for it, but I get that it's hard to convince large companies of this.
  • maeil 2 days ago |
    Interesting how GOG is willing to take such a hard stand of this and fight Blizzard on it, when they immediately pulled the Taiwanese horror game Devotion for political reasons [1].

    [1] https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/17/taiwanese-horr...

    • fwipsy 2 days ago |
      I guess it's not a principled stand in favor of free speech. They just want to sell games. The CCP can block them in China; Blizzard can't.
      • TeMPOraL 2 days ago |
        Maybe they don't feel that opinionated over free speech, which is easy when coming and living in a society where that's a given; however, they may feel much more opinionated about businesses fucking their customers over and doing the usual business shenanigans. In a way, this issue is GOG's whole shtick - selling games without DRM bullshit.
    • shakna 2 days ago |
      Scale of difference between being threatened by China, and threatened by a company within America, though. There's nothing surprising about bowing to a government to keep their citizens as customers.
    • cocacola1 2 days ago |
      > But shortly after release, Chinese players found a poster hanging in the apartment that serves as the games’ setting that said “Xi Jinping Winnie-the-Pooh moron”.

      > Almost 10,000 negative reviews soon flooded the game’s review page. The developer, Red Candle Games, posted an apology saying it was “purely an accident” that the poster was left in the game.

      10,000 negative reviews is wild for something so banal. I can't imagine defending a politician over what might be the mildest insult ever conceived.

      • propoganda 2 days ago |
        That’s because politicians here have lost your respect to such a degree that it’s unfathomable that you’d have any loyalty to them. It’s understandable of course, but it’s not the case everywhere.

        Old Russian joke about insulting Reagan in front of the kremlin etc.

        • gambiting 2 days ago |
          >> that it’s unfathomable that you’d have any loyalty to them.

          It's unfathomable that anyone anywhere has "loyalty" to any politician. They are just doing a job - what do they need loyalty for? Especially from the electorate.

          • TeMPOraL 2 days ago |
            Look, it may be unfathomable to your alien mind from outer space, but it is what it is. Human beings tend to entangle their sense of self with causes and people they care about, whether it's a politician, a singer, a sportsball player, or a spouse. You need to accept that if you want to understand humans.
            • propoganda a day ago |
              Can only say it so many times, I suppose.
        • hackernewds 2 days ago |
          Great propaganda you have sold here, propaganda :)
        • wiseowise 2 days ago |
          Politician is just another administrative job. If you have “respect” to the point where you’re willing to destroy someone over mild insult you need to be isolated from democratic society.

          Obviously in this case it was most likely bot farm, but given 1,4 billion Chinese population I wouldn’t be surprised over a couple hundred million brainwashed to the point of frenzy.

        • hyperman1 2 days ago |
          Looking at your username, I have no idea if this is a real comment, a shill for China, a troll, or sarcasm gone of the scales. That's an impressive amount of metagame for a sure-to-be-downmodded comment.
          • dartos 2 days ago |
            A 9 hour old account too
            • propoganda a day ago |
              Gee wiz, that’s got us stumped! What are the implications there fellas??
              • dartos a day ago |
                Obviously a Chinese threat actor at work.
        • cocacola1 a day ago |
      • TeMPOraL 2 days ago |
        > 10,000 negative reviews is wild for something so banal. I can't imagine defending a politician over what might be the mildest insult ever conceived.

        Imagine the poster unironically showed Trump dressed up to resemble Abraham Lincoln, and praised him as the great leader of USA. Or some such.

        Imagine what would happen in the reviews then.

        • patates 2 days ago |
          I strongly dislike Trump (let's keep it at that), but that is a good point. If I had discovered something like this in a game, I'd probably uninstall, perhaps mention that in my review if I have other things to say and move on. Many people would obviously do differently.

          However, if someone discovered something like this in a game that I own and called everyone to add bad reviews and others have been at work bashing the product... I'd probably say "meh" and not do anything.

          I find a line between these and while it's clear for me, I cannot put into words exactly why. Am I counting on the actions of others? Not sure.

          Now we have an ecosystem of very political communities online that expand into social media, games, news and even travel, and they are getting bigger. Would harsh reactions make everything better or worse? I don't know the answer but I follow my gut feeling and just ignore them.

          • TeMPOraL 2 days ago |
            FWIW, the point I'm making isn't that this is reasonable behavior. Only that it's to be expected.

            Myself, if I saw a game insulting something or someone I'm emotionally attached to, I'd probably roll my eyes and continue or uninstall, depending on how my mood is ruined. I might think less of whoever put the insult there (or allowed it to stay), too. But many, many others would, unfortunately, voice their disdain more directly.

            I picked Trump as an example because, whatever you think about him, it should be easy for us in the West to imagine people going overboard in defending/dissing him too, because that has been, and is, repeatedly happening in plain sight for many years now. In this sense, it's the same reaction as 'cocacola1 is failing to understand.

        • cocacola1 a day ago |
          I already see that. I go on my merry way.
      • thayne 2 days ago |
        I'm doubtful most of those reviews were real.
        • ben_w 2 days ago |
          Only my belief that the Chinese government does propaganda would make me doubt any of it.

          One thousand British people downvoting something that mocks, say, Boris Johnson seems very plausible, even those Johnson is unpopular and the UK population is less than a tenth the size of China.

      • im3w1l 2 days ago |
        There are over a billion chinese people. 10,000 negative reviews means that ~0.001% of them felt strongly enough to leave a bad review in protest.
        • vanderZwan 2 days ago |
          How many of those reviewers actually owned the game?
      • andrepd 2 days ago |
        Review bombing is almost zero cost and standard practice nowadays every time some Internet hivemind decides they hate a game. 10,000 is actually not that much.
        • cocacola1 a day ago |
          I'm not sure the people on the receiving end feel the same way.
    • izacus 2 days ago |
      It's more interesting how y'all always find ways to tear into everyone that makes a stand - no true scotsman style while giving a pass to much worse actors.

      Companies like Activision, Ubisoft, EA and Microsoft can do outright horrible things and you'll be sitting by quitely, but god forbid someone like GoG shows up with an idea to fix something and you tear into them just because they didn't solve all the worlds political problems at once.

      • Etherlord87 2 days ago |
        It's not about not solving a problem, it's about being a part of the problem. GOG took part in bullying a developer for political reasons. We don't want to live in the world where you can't criticize China or you will be cancelled.

        Of course Microsoft is guilty of removing the Tiananmen Square massacre result from Bing on an anniversary of that event. Did they ever explain why that happened? I think not.

        • BlueTemplar a day ago |
          Yes, what GoG did is bad.

          Unfortunately, very few (non-giant) developers still let you buy and download DRM-free games from their own websites, and so far, as far as I am aware of, GoG is still the least bad option for the others (there's also the likes of Matrix-Slitherine and itch.io, but they are much more niche).

    • graynk 2 days ago |
      I like GOG, but I'm still pissed off about this one, yeah. BTW you can buy it from the developer's website, it's great.

      https://shop.redcandlegames.com/app/devotion

  • danielskogly 2 days ago |
    Link to GOG’s announcement: https://www.gog.com/en/news/warcraft_12_will_be_delisted_fro....

    Worth noting that even if it will no longer be available for sale, they will still keep it updated for people who already bought it.

    • thaumasiotes 2 days ago |
      > Going forward, even if a game is no longer available for sale on GOG, as part of the GOG Preservation Program, it will continue to be maintained and updated by us, ensuring it remains compatible with modern and future systems.

      That's not worth much. They don't even maintain the games that are still for sale on GOG. Try playing Tales of Monkey Island; most of the cutscenes won't run.

      • danielskogly 2 days ago |
        Tales of Monkey Island is not part of the GOG Preservation Program as far as I can tell[0]. This policy update is for games part of the program.

        https://www.gog.com/en/game/tales_of_monkey_island

        • thaumasiotes 2 days ago |
          They have another policy specifying that they maintain the games they sell. They don't sell as-is, they warrant that the game will run appropriately.

          But we know they don't honor that policy.

          What would you conclude?

          • izacus 2 days ago |
            Why the heck do you think it's the stores job to employ developers to maintain games for you forever?

            How do you think that actually works out? For games that are sold for usually less than 15 bucks?

            • thaumasiotes 2 days ago |
              Because that's what they say their job is? Did you read the rest of the comment thread?

              I believe what _I_ said about it, personally, was "that's not worth much" (because they don't do it).

          • graynk 2 days ago |
            > They have another policy specifying that they maintain the games they sell. They don't sell as-is, they warrant that the game will run appropriately.

            Would be helpful if you've linked to that policy :)

            They do update some of the classics, that's true. Expecting them to fix bugs in every single game on the store is madness. They do have tech support that you can reach out to and they refund games if they don't work for you. That's as much as one can expect.

            • thaumasiotes 16 hours ago |
              https://www.gog.com/about_gog

              > Even if the game is older than you are, we test it thoroughly, fix all the bugs, and apply patches so it runs flawlessly on your next-gen PC and on modern OSs.

              • graynk 13 hours ago |
                Not a good look to be sure, but it's hardly a policy, is it? It's a single marketing blurb (with "Upgrading classics for present-day" blurb atop of it BTW, so even there it's not claiming to fix __every single game__, but it does align with the preservation program)

                The actual policies are here: https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/categories/201526109-Polici...

      • Jare 2 days ago |
        I can't put much faith in any technical promise from GOG.

        My GOG account broke somehow almost 10 years ago, and over the years and several attempts they have been unable to recover it. They can't even establish why it's broken or what games I owned or if the whole thing has been irrecoverably lost.

  • 3eb7988a1663 2 days ago |
    If you only read the headline, GOG is still selling both games until December 13th.

    Now, I have to weigh the calculus: do I buy the games just because, knowing there is basically zero chance I boot them up? What if that was Blizzard's end game -to drive scarcity?

    • waveBidder 2 days ago |
      like other game companies (cough Nintendo) their old library is viewed as direct competition with their current set of games/subscription products. also wotmrth remembering that Blizzard is now a Microsoft property.
      • thaumasiotes 2 days ago |
        > like other game companies (cough Nintendo) their old library is viewed as direct competition with their current set of games/subscription products.

        That's nothing special to game companies. All entertainment companies are the same way. That's why they push for longer and longer copyrights. Copyright is what protects Disney from having to compete with its own past work.

        • hyperman1 2 days ago |
          Microsoft in the XP era said their main competitors were windows 98 and office 97.
          • anthk 2 days ago |
            Well, w98 was already "dead", it was a rehashed win95 with better plug and play, some fixes, activeX/IE4 down your throat an the same atrocious stability.
        • brobdingnagians 2 days ago |
          The only reason I buy anything from Disney is because of their older work. It would be interesting to see a comparison of revenue for Disney broken down by decade of first release. Does anyone have that sort of thing or is the data not public? / Could anyone point me to the data to do that sort of analysis?
      • GoblinSlayer 2 days ago |
        They aren't wrong, modern games have no chance against good old Bomberman.
    • MrDresden 2 days ago |
      Had similar thoughts, but in the end decided that having the option of playing some of my favourite games from childhood was worth more to me than any spite I have towards Blizzard.

      They have shown themselves to be bad curators of their own catalogue, so I bought a copy to avoid having issues during some possible future point when I just want to experience some nostalgia.

    • akimbostrawman 2 days ago |
      piracy
    • jack_pp 2 days ago |
      Drive scarcity? I was playing pirated WC3 20 years ago, on pirated battle.net. There's no such thing as scarcity for old games. They will forever be available as long as there are seeders.
      • red-iron-pine 2 days ago |
        yeah but now i have to trust some random magnet link and hope it's not gonna drop some sort of rootkit on me. and yeah okay there are ways around that like using an old laptop or heavily sandbox'd VM.

        but now i'm not just snagging a file, i'm creating an entire workflow. i'll just pay for the actual, clean binary

        • throwawaymobule a day ago |
          All of gog's offline installers are signed and do a hash check on any external .bin files they ship with.

          The impact they've had on bundled malware in pirated copies of their games can not be overstated.

    • xandrius 2 days ago |
      I mean, let's not pretend that GOG is the only way to have access to these files.

      It might be the only way to legally "own" the game but if we want to blur that then it's pretty easy to get in possession of the files.

  • spiritplumber 2 days ago |
    Well that's $15 that are going to GOG instead of Blizzard.
    • akimbostrawman 2 days ago |
      they still get that 15 - gog cut
    • xandrius 2 days ago |
      Do you think GOG can sell anything without a license of sorts? Otherwise what's the difference of paying for piracy?
      • Macha 2 days ago |
        I'm sure GOG are legally covered in what they're doing (it's also not the first time, they had a dispute with bethesda over unlisting the classic fallout games for years). Blizzard's given them a termination date of the 13th, so they're allowed sell until them, and probably contractually Blizzard had to give them some amount of advanced notice.
  • soulofmischief 2 days ago |
    Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42259040

    > there would be a significant risk that preserved video games would be used for recreational purposes

    Fuck DRM and fuck Blizzard. Kudos to everyone involved in games and film preservation during this hostile era.

  • llmthrow102 2 days ago |
    They've also now launched the Warcraft 3 "remaster" twice, and it's still in a worse state than it was 20 years ago. First they did less than half the job, cut budget, and launched missing major features from the original project, with only some terrible new models to show that look decent up close, but bad from the overhead RTS view. Then they did a relaunch where they did lazy AI upscaling of old models and icons that don't actually look any better, added some realtime shadows that don't fit with the style of the game, and called it a "Warcraft 3 2.0".

    Really terrible treatment of one of the best game series of all time, and being part of Microsoft hasn't helped. It would have been nice if Warcraft 3 got the same treatment as AoE2 or AoM.

    I buy all games on GoG when I can, especially classic games, but new ones as well. It's so nice to just have a collection of DRM-free installers, and be able to support a company that does right by the classic games.

    • hulitu 2 days ago |
      > Really terrible treatment of one of the best game series of all time, and being part of Microsoft hasn't helped. It would have been nice if Warcraft 3 got the same treatment as AoE2 or AoM.

      Oh, Microsoft, the destroyers of GUIs.

      I tried AoE 3 on Steam (demo). It was a total disaster. Downloading was slow and then the game: At the first start would not let me build barracks (no suitable place found).

      At the second start it was hard to found the baracks again (all icons look the same - Windows style enshitification) but the peasants will not harvest berry bushes.(bugs) They made the UI much worse. The playground is round. The icons look the same so one has to look at tooltips to build a house. All in all a crappy experience. I guess i will stick with AoE 2.

      • fifticon 2 days ago |
        my child insists, reasonably, on playing minecraft, so we must endure the microsoft launcher ui stewardship for mc. what a hot mess of bloated bureaucracy-software-dungheap. It is as if even their installer has an installer and a loadscreen. Consider if you, gosh, want to continue PLAYING EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS LAST NIGHT. The launcher design response: ouh, i did NOT expect that! Please wait while we reauth and 2FA and sync your account and download and reinstall your game client.. wait a minute.. hmm, on second thought, Im not SURE we can just let you continue the game from "last night"..? oops, no wait.. WE CAN?! I swear there is more code in, and people assigned to, their crappy bloated launcher, than to the game itself. Ironically, their store features are so buggy I often dven cant manage to buy their DLC theft-as-servjce stuff.
        • breakingcups 2 days ago |
          Good news! There are alternative, unofficial launchers! Check out Prism or POLYMC for example.
        • portaouflop 2 days ago |
          Luckily with Minecraft there are lots of alternatives, you don’t need to use the MS crap.
      • pjmlp 2 days ago |
        > Microsoft, the destroyers of GUIs.

        In the past I would have complained, but as someone that has foolished invested into UWP and WinRT siren song, I can't but fully agree.

        • Dalewyn 2 days ago |
          Never bet against Win32.
          • pjmlp 2 days ago |
            Kind of yes, the bigger problem is that Azure and XBox are now the money makers, so even Win32 isn't being updated that much since Windows XP, note that most Win32 APIs are now available via COM, and that is what UWP/WinRT offered, COM vNext, instead they messed up, and now we're back into COM classic with crappy tooling, even though it is the main API delivery mechanism.
    • smolder 2 days ago |
      Blizzard started down the path to failure when they merged with Activision, though I'm not sure they would have lasted much longer outside of that. It's apparent to me the only way "make quality stuff" survives as a strategy long term is to stay private like Valve. Public ownership ruins companies. They grow into inefficient messes and lose any edge they had while alienating their customers in the interest of short term gain.

      Maybe companies should consider limiting their growth to stay nimble enough to provide value and stay viable. Maybe they do more good by being good at what they do than by chasing peak profit and diminishing their brands. Either way, Bobby Kotick was a bad CEO.

      • 0dayz 2 days ago |
        Nope, it started waaay before that.

        * The sexual misconduct most likely happened way before it came out publicly as all the sleezebags stayed until it was public

        * real id debacle

        * Diablo 3

        * shutting down blizzard north, despite working on d3

        * spending 10 years on trying to make starcraft 2, when the rts genre was in a major slump

        * x years on the project titan, only to get cancelled

        * spent years trying to create a dedicated moba, and hots came out after the hype of the genre was gone

        * Cancelling semi-experimental games (the Warcraft Point'n Click Adventure game, the Starcraft: Ghost game, and many others[1])

        I'm sure there are more issues/fuck ups blizzard did, the point though is that the company couldn't adapt to the new norms of the industry (some are excusable due to the fuck you money wow gives) and thus became the black sheep.

        [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/1ft4...

        Certain games on that list tbf is way past 2008.

        • portaouflop 2 days ago |
          Shutting down Blizzard North was when it began to get real shitty
        • realusername 2 days ago |
          I kind of forgot but it's true that Starcraft 2 used to be a joke in itself somewhat similar to Duke Nukem Forever at its time.
          • Nuzzerino 2 days ago |
            I thought Starcraft 2 was fine, even if it isn't Brood War. Not really a fair comparison with Duke Nukem Forever. Diablo 3 on the other hand...
            • 0dayz 2 days ago |
              The issue is effectively that Blizzard released Starcraft 2 during a time where RTS was seen as a forgotten genre entirely, the best you had was the Company of Heroes & Dawn of War.

              If they had released it 5 years earlier it might have allowed the genre to stick to the huge cultural legacy it had, at least in Korea.

              Let alone the fact that the story of Starcraft 2 was... white-washed entirely compared to the OG & Brood Wars.

            • sirwhinesalot 2 days ago |
              SC2 plays pretty great but the plot really went off the rails. Brood War was already worse than base SC plot wise but at least it was still rather dark. SC2's plot feels like garbage fanfic.
        • bluescrn 2 days ago |
          > Spending 10 years on trying to make starcraft 2, when the rts genre was in a major slump

          Was worth it though. SC2 was the last of the old, great Blizzard

          • BlueTemplar 2 days ago |
            Nah, as you can see with its online-only requirement (and ActiBlizz being greedy about custom made maps), it was already the new Blizzard, after merging with Activision and the changes that WoW brought.
          • krageon 2 days ago |
            starcraft 2 was really cool when it came out, but it is not good now. And you can't play an old patch because it's always online
        • YurgenJurgensen 2 days ago |
          “Do you guys not have phones?”
        • Fokamul 2 days ago |
          * Releasing Diablo II Resurrected and striping multiplayer option to host own server, because some modder, made a patch to play with old D2 Lod version on modded server in Alpha version. Years later they patched stripped multiplayer back and now modders are working on D2R multiplayer modded servers, Blizzard people are so smart...
          • 0dayz 2 days ago |
            To be fair this list is only mostly during or at the time when Blizzard was still semi-independent i.e. not merged with Activision yet.
        • Etherlord87 2 days ago |
          Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close. I have no idea why you put it on the list.

          Activision Blizzard was 2008. Shutting Blizzard North was 2005.

          So indeed it seems it was rotting before official Vivaldi-Activision merger.

          I think, just like with Starcraft, you misread the situation with "hype of the genre was gone" about moba. I think Blizzard was very good at creating extremely polished products, but LoL already was polished and well established.

          Project Titan's assets were used in Overwatch, but yeah, spending so much time on a big project to abandon it really shows poor management skills and overall bad design of the project.

          • 0dayz 2 days ago |
            The problem was the timing, Starcraft 2 mechanics wise is fine even if they made some really whimsical balance changes that plagued the esport scene until it was almost pulled off life support (similar to how Overwatch couldn't balance itself to the point where the developers gave up).

            If like HotS and Diablo 3 it came out much earlier it would've kept the RTS genre most likely alive (only revived interest in AoE 2 started to get the ball rolling for RTS again).

            Not only that but Blizzard had since WC3 tried to create their own MOBA and stalled time and time again, they announced Blizzard All-star while announcing SC2, only for HotS to be announce after Dota 2 had left beta & LoL was already moving away from static MOBA design to the more "skill based" design they currently got.

            Especially if the rumor that icefrog (last dev of Dota) approached Blizzard and Blizzard said no, it's the most obvious act of stupidity Blizzard did.

            By the time HotS was out it was dead in the water because it had no competing feature setting it apart from the competition:

            * if you wanted micromanaged static MOBA: Dota 2

            * If you wanted a 3rd person shooter MOBA: Smite

            * If you wanted a "skill based" dynamic and more casual MOBA: LoL

            HotS tried to mimic LoL which meant an already watered down MOBA being further watered down.

            Hearthstone is a good example of how Blizzard's games could have looked have they timed their releases better and stopped with "fold it 3000 times", since you can only do this if the game's budget is a typical 90s game budget or you've got alternative income sources & isn't publicly owned i.e. Valve.

            • invalidOrTaken a day ago |
              The goofy thing about all this is that HotS is really good if you judge it on its own merits. I played DotA for a long time, switched to HotS, and never looked back.
              • properpopper a day ago |
                Hots feels great because it has multiple maps, you don't have to farm/ buy items, but it can feel boring comparing to Dota2/Lol
            • properpopper a day ago |
              > * if you wanted micromanaged static MOBA: Dota 2

              Static? Dota 2 is not a dynamic game? Not why wdym by "micromanaged" - Meepo, Nature prophet?

              > * If you wanted a 3rd person shooter MOBA: Smite

              Paragon?

              > HotS tried to mimic LoL

              Completely different games, hots feels more like a team based game compared to Dota 2 or Lol because it has shared experience + no gold + no items - so the gap between a good and a bad player is not that visible compared to Dota2/Lol where you can abandon your team for 20-30 minutes and then destroy everyone

              • bluescrn a day ago |
                MOBA is a strange genre. Seems to take the worst bits of of RTS and the worst of ARPG, and combine it with the worst of the gaming community and a multiplayer-only design that's very hostile to beginners.

                Never got on with them or really understood the appeal, despite loving RTS and ARPGs.

              • 0dayz a day ago |
                >Static? Dota 2 is not a dynamic game? Not why wdym by "micromanaged" - Meepo, Nature prophet?

                Dota 2 afaik still relies heavily on static effects such as on click effects rather than LoL where it's mostly just a matter of "skill" based abilities.

                >Completely different games, hots feels more like a team based game compared to Dota 2 or Lol because it has shared experience + no gold + no items - so the gap between a good and a bad player is not that visible compared to Dota2/Lol where you can abandon your team for 20-30 minutes and then destroy everyone

                HotS is a watered down version of LoL, it doesn't mean it's bad it just means it could never compete to garner the same audience when we already have "Dota 2 for big brain people, LoL for casual people".

            • pdimitar a day ago |
              As a casual player who was deeply invested in the Blizzard-verse me and my wife absolutely loved HOTS, regardless of timing et. al. that you mentioned.

              Our problem with it ultimately became the drudgery. We wanted more game modes, some wacky whimsical arcade-like stuff. It's been a while and my memory isn't great in terms of the timeline but I think eventually they did add something like that? Can't remember but basically we gave up on the game because there was no gameplay experience diversity; stuff was more or less the same.

              ...and then they abandoned it... :(

              HOTS is still a beautiful and well-made game though. To this day.

          • BlueTemplar 2 days ago |
            That's bullshit, the greatest thing about SC2 was its marketing (including e-sports money). Ok, also the first campaign is great and the polish is, as always, top tier.

            But RTS was only in a slump in the sense that the apex of the popularity of that genre was around the turn of the millennium (which probably was unavoidable).

            And only a few years before SC2 released we've got the likes of Dawn of War 1 and Supreme Commander 1, and, last but not least : the amateur-made Spring(-Recoil) games, which put almost every other RTS game to shame, so advanced they were in comparison (and, sadly, still are, when you look at today's player's first impressions of BAR, despite it mostly only having improved in the graphics and performance department, as the 'R' suggests).

            Compared to Spring games, Starcraft 2 looked like a very solid and polished, but also very safe and almost obsolete game.

          • Pet_Ant a day ago |
            > Starcraft 2 murdered RTS genre, it was and is so good, that nothing comes close.

            I mean Supreme Commander has an active community despite coming out 3 years earlier, with less hype, and from a company that has long died.

            Starcraft 2 had a nice campaign, but it really felt like Starcraft 1.5. Never really elevated the genre. SupCom really did.

            • Etherlord87 a day ago |
              Starcraft 2 came with a new, 3D engine. How can you call it Stacraft 1.5 let's be serious.
              • Pet_Ant a day ago |
                Sure, but the terrain wasn't truly 3D. I'm pretty sure there isn't any ballistics calculations for the attacks in Starcraft. It could have easily been a Starcraft remaster. It didn't really take the RTS genre to the next level. Doom does a lot more innovation between iterations.

                Have you played Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander? Those increased the scale, the tactics, the map size. The weapons felt more varied. Really, made SC 1 & 2 feel rather Mickey Mouse.

                • pdimitar a day ago |
                  Tastes are tastes and as such are subjective and can't be contested. But Supreme Commander looks like almost a different genre to me. I like SC2's format to this day.
                • Etherlord87 18 hours ago |
                  I don't like Supreme Commander, but I definitely agree it is the competitor of Starcraft 2. AoE don't seem this way to me, these games are so clunky. And tens if not hundreds of titles that feel like inferior reskins.
          • concordDance a day ago |
            Supcom, AoE2, Zero-K and BAR are all superior along different axes to SC2. RTS is a very wide category.
        • stavrus 2 days ago |
          This just reads as a random mishmash of missteps the company has taken over its 33 years of existence (remember, it's older than Amazon or Google) rather than a proper critique of when it arguably lost its shine in the public's eyes. The company still generates a ton of money, continues to set records for day 1 sales of its games, and owns extremely valuable IP in the gaming industry, so you can't really say it hasn't adapted well to the current industry norms. At times, it practically sets them. It has certainly missed a lot of opportunities, such as turning BattleNet into a public digital storefront before Steam, or capitalizing on the MoBA genre that spawned from their own games before competitors did, but I doubt that they would have had as much success even if they did because their approach would have been different.

          Jason Schreier's recent book covers some of the game cancellations. The Warcraft adventure game was cancelled after they flew out one of the best designers in the genre for a week to try to make it work, and make it fun, and couldn't. It was a game that was outsourced to a different company, and they didn't feel like it was up to their quality standards to ship. Shutting down Blizzard North came about as a consequence of the distance between them and HQ, leading to a different studio culture that became difficult to manage, and the uncontested resignation of Blizzard North's executive team when they tried to make demands from Blizzard's owners, Vivendi.

          Polygon [1] covered the Starcraft: Ghost game. Long story short, it got canned because it was in development hell for too long. Originally under development by a studio in the Bay area, there apparently wasn't a dedicated Blizzard producer to the game for the longest time, and the idea of what it should be kept changing as new games came out and HQ wanted them to copy those ideas. At some point, Blizzard shifted development to a different studio just miles away from them because they wanted multiplayer, but the same issues persisted. And then they released WoW, which consumed all of their attention. With the release of the gen 7 consoles around the corner, requiring further investment, they made the sensible choice to shelve it so they could focus their time and money on their new cash-printing machine instead.

          Experimentation is important for finding the fun, and cancelling what isn't working is a required part of the process. And while, yes, there's a ton of games in the Blizzard graveyard, they're no exception. Valve has a list of cancelled games that's probably just as long. And they're all the better for it. Titan died in favor of Overwatch, Nomad died in favor of World of Warcraft.

          [1] https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/5/11819438/starcraft-ghost-wh...

          • 0dayz a day ago |
            >This just reads as a random mishmash of missteps the company has taken over its 33 years of existence (remember, it's older than Amazon or Google) rather than a proper critique of when it arguably lost its shine in the public's eyes. The company still generates a ton of money, continues to set records for day 1 sales of its games, and owns extremely valuable IP in the gaming industry, so you can't really say it hasn't adapted well to the current industry norms.

            At the expense of being treated almost as bad as people treat activision.

            >It has certainly missed a lot of opportunities, such as turning BattleNet into a public digital storefront before Steam, or capitalizing on the MoBA genre that spawned from their own games before competitors did, but I doubt that they would have had as much success even if they did because their approach would have been different.

            Afaik they never tried to compete with Valve with a Steam alternative shop, this only came about way later with Activision releasing their games onto BattleNet platform.

            >Jason Schreier's recent book covers some of the game cancellations. The Warcraft adventure game was cancelled after they flew out one of the best designers in the genre for a week to try to make it work, and make it fun, and couldn't. It was a game that was outsourced to a different company, and they didn't feel like it was up to their quality standards to ship. Shutting down Blizzard North came about as a consequence of the distance between them and HQ, leading to a different studio culture that became difficult to manage, and the uncontested resignation of Blizzard North's executive team when they tried to make demands from Blizzard's owners, Vivendi.

            Outsourcing those games was then the issue, they should've either done it in-house or tried to work with a more well known company, since afaik it wasn't exactly done by LucasArts or Seria but the same studio who did the Zelda games made for the Philips CD-i.

            Same thing goes with SC: Ghost, and as you point out it was rife with mistakes that screwed it all up.

            >Experimentation is important for finding the fun, and cancelling what isn't working is a required part of the process. And while, yes, there's a ton of games in the Blizzard graveyard, they're no exception. Valve has a list of cancelled games that's probably just as long. And they're all the better for it. Titan died in favor of Overwatch, Nomad died in favor of World of Warcraft.

            I agree to an extent, you can experiment as much as you want, but if it keeps on happening without much change within the company, there's probably something systemically wrong within the company, which was the case for quite some time with Blizzard.

        • Majromax 2 days ago |
          I hate to just drop a book recommendation, but Jason Schreier's Play Nice covers the history of Blizzard in comprehensive detail.

          The overall situation was multifacted, but my takeaway is that Blizzard's recent failures come down to two main themes:

          * World of Warcraft's success gave the company unrealistic expectations of what a successful "normal" game looked like, and

          * "When it's ready" covers up the sins of a company that never quite figured out project management.

          My synthesis is that the combination meant that Blizzard projects needed to promise the moon to be greenlit, but then they immediately blew the initial time and money-budgets with the extensive scope.

          Activision's influence didn't help, and it imposed a tighter focus on prompt monetary return after Titan's cancellation. That clashed with the long development cycles of even the successful projects.

          • montagg 2 days ago |
            As someone who’s seen the inside of a game company, this thesis reads true. Success really warps expectations, and warped expectations create perverse incentives that are different than make this particular game good.
          • cogman10 a day ago |
            So interestingly you see this sort of thing play out in online media.

            - Youtuber X has a runaway successful video/s.

            - Seeing the cashflow from that video, they think "Hey, I could probably duplicate this!"

            - When that duplication fails, they decide "You know what, maybe I just need to make a lot of videos"

            - When that doesn't bring in the expected income and/or leads to burnout they think "You know what, I think I need some outside help to make me see my blindspots".

            And, of course, invariably when that outside help comes in, so does the slop. The outside help does not care about quality, they care about getting money in through the door. That often involves hack and slashing all efforts at quality, shilling out endlessly, and some real questionable decisions when it comes to employment.

            Now, of course, the creator is still responsible for what their company becomes. But, money is money and a creator/owner is just more likely to like easymode income (for themselves) vs duplicating the efforts of a prior period.

            • mnky9800n a day ago |
              But for some reason the angry video game nerd keeps making videos.
              • KETHERCORTEX 10 hours ago |
                - Money from sponsored segments.

                - Other people writing scripts, recording gameplay and other stuff.

                It's a different series today.

          • bloomingkales a day ago |
            My synthesis is that the combination meant that Blizzard projects needed to promise the moon to be greenlit, but then they immediately blew the initial time and money-budgets with the extensive scope.

            Going over budget and going over scope can only happen depending on who is measuring. I can spend 6 months developing a part of a game and not consider it a waste of time or out of scope. I’m of the mind that this was the natural state of Blizzard prior to Activision.

            I mean, they are fundamentally making things that roughly sound like this - we are all going to sit around on a server and pretend to have a giant adventure

            Ridiculous, the very concept is out of scope lol. You simply can’t have the wrong minded people involved in this process, certainly not the wrong project managers. You can’t even have the wrong parent company for a pursuit like this.

          • 0dayz a day ago |
            There was also imo a big cultural hubris among the Blizzard developers that if it wasn't done their way (i.e. they couldn't just take an existing IP like Dota and slap Blizzard logo on it, no no, had to start from scratch).
        • Thaxll 2 days ago |
          This is just a bad take on Blizzard.

          - x years on the project titan, only to get cancelled

          Overwatch came out of that and it was one of the biggest game in the last 15years. It sold over 50m copies, an insane number.

          • SketchySeaBeast 2 days ago |
            And somehow modern Blizzard managed to convert even that success into a debacle.
          • 0dayz a day ago |
            Which was pure and utter luck from scrapping a 10-ish year old project which who knows much much money they threw in.

            What if Overwatch would've been a huge failure? Would we still vindicate Blizzard's failed 2nd MMO?

        • hhjinks 2 days ago |
          I'm confused, you say it started before the merger, and go on to list a bunch of events that happened years after the merger.
          • 0dayz a day ago |
            Nope, all of these things happened before the merger, the fact that Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, etc. was released after the merger doesn't change the fact that Blizzard was dragging their feet on those IPs.
        • schmookeeg 2 days ago |
          The Warcraft Adventure was terrible. I was working at Bliz at the time. Imagine the worst LucasArts-style fan art with no real story behind it. The true believers would have loved it and anything else released in the Warcraft universe, but.. it was very very "not good"

          No argument with your other points though :)

          • 0dayz a day ago |
            Oh totally, I think that if you guys had somehow manage to get LucasArt to make it or some other notoriously good Point'n Click studio and not... the makers of such classics like: Zelda games for the Philips CD-i or IM ME'EN.
      • raxxorraxor 2 days ago |
        Same experience as an employee really. Want to work for a healthy company? Join a private one. It is of course no guarantee and there are exceptions as well, but there certainly seems to be a trend.
        • packetlost a day ago |
          I wonder why this is? Fiduciary duty of the executive leadership? Regulation compliance requirements?
          • SAI_Peregrinus a day ago |
            IMO, Goodhart's Law[1] "Any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes" or "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure" is a big part of it. As soon as stock price is the primary target it ceases to be a good measure of the actual value of the company, management will try to game the stock price at the expense of the underlying value.

            [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

      • izzydata a day ago |
        At least when it comes to artistic endeavors like video games it makes sense to be small. I find that the more you turn art into a massive assembly line the less passionate the product becomes. If the goal is quality art than massive growth is not the way.

        Unfortunately the expectation for modern games is this near infinite scope which requires several years to complete and way too much money. If your game is required to be this large then you either need a huge team or decades of time from a small time.

        So I believe that the larger the game the more likely it is going to be devoid of passion and artistic value. I'd prefer game studios to split up into many smaller studios and make more smaller games.

    • portaouflop 2 days ago |
      I used to be the biggest fanboy - buying everything they released without hesitation.

      But their treatment of Warcraft III opened my eyes - the company I fell I love with that produced quality games no matter what does not exist anymore.

      So long and thanks for all the murlocs…

    • donatj 2 days ago |
      Don't forget their handling of Overwatch.

      Overwatch launched, for pay, I believe at $39.99 USD. It was very fun very micro-transactions are optional and purely cosmetic game. I bought it day one.

      Then they saw the success of PUBG and Fortnite's season passes and decided "we want some of that" and launched Overwatch 2 going so far as locking entire characters behind micro-transactions.

      The day they launched Overwatch 2, they entirely shut down the Overwatch 1 servers. Something they had said earlier on that they were not going to do, before they later changed course. They took away the game I loved, the game I paid for, and replaced it with a junky free-to-play game dancing around in its skin like Edgar the Bug in Men in Black, all "Look at me, I'm still Overwatch, pinky promise", but anyone with a sense of taste can tell it really isn't. They ruined it.

      Literally all my friends played Overwatch. My wife was in an Overwatch League. I don't know a single person who stuck with Overwatch 2 for more than a couple weeks. My wife's entire league just shut down.

      I hear people play it but I sure don't know anyone. I would estimate mostly people who never played the original? Left such a sour taste in my mouth that I am hesitant to ever give Blizzard money again.

      • xeonmc 2 days ago |
        Your wife was in Overwatch League? Is she Geguri?
        • donatj 2 days ago |
          No lol. Not "The" Overwatch League. I should have maybe chosen my words more wisely, though I'm pretty sure they referred to themselves as a "league" though. My wife is asleep, otherwise I would ask her the correct terminology.

          Basically she was on a non-professional all woman team for almost six years that would go head-to-head with other teams in scheduled tournaments. Her team even managed to get one-on-one coaching from some guy on the actual official "Overwatch League".

          They dissolved shortly after Overwatch 2 came out. The move to 5v5 did not help as suddenly one of their tanks was redundant.

          • Ragnarork 2 days ago |
            > They dissolved shortly after Overwatch 2 came out. The move to 5v5 did not help as suddenly one of their tanks was redundant.

            This is so sad to read. :(

            Grassroot competition like that is the basis on which esports scene thrives...

            Blizzard really wrote down the manual of everything you shouldn't do to make a game into an "esport", from the competition structure and insane costs (remember the initial slots for a league that hadn't had its first season yet was between $2 and $15 millions...), to the game balance which led to one meta destroying interest completely for way too long, making an entire role useless in the process, and the list continues.

      • aniviacat 2 days ago |
        The issues with Overwatch 2 were fixed. All heros are available for free; you can get the season passes for free (the free pass includes enough premium currency to buy the premium pass); you can get most skins for normal currency and you can get the mythic currency for the mythic skins by playing the battlepass.

        There are still a few skins you can't realistically unlock without paying; but that doesn't ruin a game. Overwatch in its current state is great.

      • wongarsu 2 days ago |
        Don't forget they nearly killed Overwatch by barely supporting Overwatch 1 while they worked on Overwatch 2. But when they finally released Overwatch 2 there were barely any changes from Overwatch 1, except for the season pass system and a switch from 6v6 to 5v5. Apparently most of the development time was spent on single-player content that was first delayed and then cut entirely
        • slfnflctd 2 days ago |
          I was really looking forward to the single-player/PvE content. The gamers in my household are all fairly low skill (myself included), and one of our favorite original Overwatch events was Junkenstein's Revenge-- more of that kind of thing was huge on our anticipation list.

          When they not only killed the original Overwatch but also suddenly decided to abandon the PvE component, it was a double whammy which resulted in us instantly abandoning what had been a regular staple of our gaming time. We moved on to other things such as Deep Rock Galactic and haven't looked back.

        • worthless-trash 2 days ago |
          This point really hits home.

          Blizzard basically ignored Overwatch 1 (except for lootboxes) for the last half of its life.

          Players would have paid for maps, paid for expansions, paid for spectating the overwatch league, paid for spectating their favorite yt personalities commentary, but nope, they promised some fever dream single player which went nowhere.

    • Gud 2 days ago |
      Frankly, as an avid AoE 2(now DE) player, I wish they hadn’t.

      AoE2 is slowly losing its uniqueness with each update.

      The new matchmaking sucks, can no longer select which map to play on ranked, pathing is broken in new ways.

      Don’t get me wrong, the new civilisations are nice, just kind of hoped they wouldn’t have done a total revamp.

      • patates 2 days ago |
        It feels like the movement in the community is also slowing down. One of the most popular streamers T90 for example, has had less and less views through the last years, a reversal of a long trend upwards.

        They also added easier ways to do things which were giving competitive edge to the players who could efficiently do them the hard-way, perhaps reducing the motivation to train further for the top players (why train to do hard tricks if they could be automated by the game later).

      • unethical_ban a day ago |
        DE?

        I didn't know AoE2 was getting content updates or balancing. I thought it was the same game, locked in. I notice aoe4 has seasons and rebalancing... Not sure how to feel about it.

        • Gud a day ago |
          Some of the new civs are amazing. Two of my favourite civs are Lithuanians and Romans.

          I can also tell you, since there is a whole new generation of gamers out there who have practiced countless hours of various games, the game play and what is a n00b has dramatically changed. Plus us old timers are really good as well.

    • valenceelectron 2 days ago |
      They added insult to injury to the 2.0 upgrade by releasing promo material (supposedly screenshots) [0] that looked exactly like what fans wanted from them. Turned out, those were fake and they quickly removed most of them and what they actually did was a bad AI upscale instead.

      [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/1gr3win/how_to_m... They had images like that on their website but removed them later.

    • jmyeet 2 days ago |
      All true. For anyone unfamiliar, WC3 Remastered also did two other things:

      1. It changed the ToS so Blizzard owns the IP rights to any third-party maps, effectively killing this community. Why? Because of Dota 2. There was a customm mode called Defense of the Ancients ("Dota") that somebody took and basically created the MOBA genre. Blizzard decided to sue and lost. They tried to create their own (ie Heroes of the Storm) but the space came to be dominated by League of Legends. Blizzard didn't want a repeat of that. Ridiculous; and

      2. WC3 Reforged ("Refunded" as it was commonly called on release) also made the original game worse even if you didn't have Reforged. The game downloaded a bunch of assets you didn't use. It broke compatibility with some maps. I think there were a bunch of other problems too.

      More [1]. Some of these might've been fixed by later updates now.

      [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/WC3/comments/exav5v/just_a_list_of_...

  • indigoabstract 2 days ago |
    Hmm, if anyone wants to play them or add to the collection, buying them from GOG instead of Blizzard should be a pretty easy decision.
  • dusted 2 days ago |
    wow, the remaster looks like a 00s flash game..
  • thaumasiotes 2 days ago |
    > Blizzard [...] has asked GOG to remove its non-remastered, DRM-free $15 bundle of those games from its store on December 13.

    > GOG [...] suddenly finds itself with a new policy to figure out. So GOG is putting the Warcraft I & II Bundle on sale (discount code "MakeWarcraftLiveForever" for $2 off) and is letting folks know that if they buy it before December 13, they will keep access to it after the delisting, complete with offline installers.

    That's not a new policy. That's their existing policy with no changes.

    Though they're giving the company much gentler treatment than they used to. When Duke Nukem got pulled, GOG put it on giveaway.

    • etiam a day ago |
      They've worked a fair bit at it already and if they intend to keep maintaining it indefinitely without possibility for further sales it could be nice to actually get money for it at this point. Also, I'm not sure what they might be obligated to pass to the copyright holder per copy? Maybe it's not a proportion of the sales price in this case?
  • propoganda 2 days ago |
    Still have the original war2bne disk. The change from war2 to war3 was, back then anyway, monumental. We couldn’t wait. All sorts of rumours but more than that - realities. Great things have come out of war3 of course, but damn did we jump on it with the gleam in our eye. Blizzard is no longer the company that we once knew, and what was once clear is now a distant shadow.
    • KeplerBoy 2 days ago |
      Really sad that nothing in the genre has changed since war3.

      People still play DotA forks and successors, but the RTS genre kind of ended with wc3.

  • 9x39 2 days ago |
    On one hand, companies sometimes add value with rereleases of older catalogs: resolution updates, new multiplayer infrastructure, new content, etc.

    On the other, huge companies that could do better throw out an AI upscale, more or less, and that seems to be what this turned out to be: https://youtu.be/KZ9Ac4WVW6Q?si=9Wzjxl0Mkh4t3nMG

    Too bad from a company that was once one of THE names in game development and often delaying shipping until the product was ‘right’.

  • brobdingnagians 2 days ago |
    It used to be exciting when a Blizzard release was coming out. Now it's just scary and a bit depressing when they announce something. I was excited all the way up through Overwatch 1, then the WC3 remaster and Overwatch 2 were awful. If they only messed up new releases it wouldnt be so bad; it's the incessant fiddling and worsening of what was good. Even of games that weren't meant to be "live service" games.

    I already have WC2 on GoG and this preservation program commitment makes me think I should start ramping up buying other games from my childhood with GoG.

    • 946789987649 2 days ago |
      Even World of Warcraft which used to be seamless in terms of issues, has had increasingly more and more obvious bugs. A sad state from the "Blizzard polish" of yesteryear.
      • EugeneOZ 2 days ago |
        Try playing WoW with a new account. The initial mission has incredibly ugly graphics (much worse than the main game), a flat progress bar during loading (literally just a simple blue rectangle - no borders, gradients, or shadows, just something that a basic box(x, y, x1, y1) function would draw), and a yellow rectangle instead of a rope connecting your hero to a flying vehicle. It’s not a 3D bar, just a 2D yellow rectangle that looks like a censorship block on the screen, and you’re supposed to imagine it’s a rope hanging from a helicopter-like vehicle.

        I understand it’s an old game, but these parts seem like pure laziness. I’m sure this laziness costs them a lot of players who leave the initial mission in disgust and never get to see the beautiful parts of WoW.

        • xandrius 2 days ago |
          Same applies to many MMOs, even GW2 and FFXIV are terrible at the beginning, compared the current content.
      • burmanm 2 days ago |
        World of Warcraft has never been without issues. When it launched it was full of bugs, servers kept crashing (but they did refund a lot of gametime back then) and so on.

        And every expansion was just a nightmare start, without being able to get to the new zone, servers again crashing.

        You just have golden memories of a state that never happened. Game wise, WoW has gone forward a lot since DF (the disaster of SL taught them something) and is actually in a lot better state than before. Sure, it has bugs, but it's also a massive game. And they do keep fixing a lot of bugs with quite good response time these days instead of what it used to be.

        • 946789987649 2 days ago |
          Bugs and infrastructure are two different things. Yes when a game first launches it will potentially be quite buggy, but every expansion until recently has been impressively slick.
    • seba_dos1 2 days ago |
      Even for someone who only really played Hearthstone for a while many years ago but tries to stay somewhat current with the industry, my perception of Blizzard has indeed massively changed somewhere after Overwatch. Most of their moves I was reading about since were rather baffling, which was very unlike how I perceived Blizzard before.
    • dxuh 2 days ago |
      You mention a really interesting point. My heart also sinks in my stomach whenever I see "X announces Y" and X is in a set of names such as "Electronic Arts", "Activision", and many more. I really wonder if these companies are aware that their customers have this reaction, but I doubt they see it as a bad thing.
  • PeterStuer 2 days ago |
    I remember when Blizzard was a company run by gamers that loved gamers. These days it feels like a company reigned by 'modern' HR that despises gamers.
  • bilekas 2 days ago |
    Blizzard seem to be burning a lot of bridges and goodwill they've built up over the years. It's incredible what GoG is trying to do, for a profit of course but all the same.

    The idea of not being able to purchase older titles in a legitimate way only encourages piracy, yet if it will squeeze an extra few pennies out for shareholders, it seems like the right move.

    The games industry really seems to be turning into the snake that eats itself. I'm just grateful for the indie scene still being a thing.

    • thayne 2 days ago |
      > The idea of not being able to purchase older titles in a legitimate way only encourages piracy

      The solution is to dramatically decrease the length of copyright, so that old games (or other software) can be obtained legally (and modified) even if the original maker no longer sells it.

      • portaouflop 2 days ago |
        Or just pirate it like we did for the last 30+ years…

        Copyright is broken and has failed it’s purpose - I have no hope that we can fix it in my lifetime.

        • vanderZwan 2 days ago |
          It's not like we have to choose between the two.
        • BlueTemplar a day ago |
          The issue here is that Blizzard is well known to be cease-and-desist letter-happy, as SC1 modders found out even before the merger with Activision (IIRC).
        • r00fus a day ago |
          Copyright has been coopted by industry for a LONG time. Its purpose for the longest time has been to line the pockets of rights holders and screw everyone else.
    • realusername 2 days ago |
      What does giving money to Blizzard is achieving for such ancient titles anyways?

      Nobody from that era probably works at Blizzard anymore and some are probably retired.

      Who piracy is even supposed to be spoiling here exactly even in theory?

    • yreg 2 days ago |
      How does pulling old games from stores squeeze an extra few pennies out?
      • depr 2 days ago |
        There are remastered versions of those games that Blizzard wants to sell instead.
        • apetresc 2 days ago |
          Well, it's not just that - Blizzard is actively selling the non-remastered original versions (running on DOSBox exactly like the GoG ones) directly from the Battle.net launcher now too. They've essentially in-housed the exact same product that they originally commissioned for GoG.

          It may or may not be a jerk move, business-wise (I have no idea what their original agreement with GoG was when they launched it there), but from a purely preservationist point of view, nothing has yet been lost as a result of this.

          (And while it's tempting to say that in the long run GoG would have been better stewards of the old builds than Blizzard, and that would certainly be true for 99% of publishers out there, keep in mind that Blizzard has successfully kept up servers and downloads for games going back to the mid-90s up to the present day. Blizzard takes preservation much more seriously than almost anyone else.)

          • bilekas a day ago |
            > They've essentially in-housed the exact same product that they originally commissioned for GoG.

            With added DRM? Because if I remember correctly the blizzard luncher has built in DRM, unable to launch the game without it?

      • vanderZwan 2 days ago |
        If Blizzard gets a percentage of Warcraft I and II sales on GoG, then inducing last minute panic buys on GoG could be beneficial to them
      • SmallDeadGuy 2 days ago |
        They've released a Warcraft Battle Chest which includes remasters of those games at three times the price (but also includes Warcraft 3), hoping to capture those old game sales into a more expensive offering. Awful for consumers to not just have both options, but shareholders > consumers for public companies unfortunately.
  • globalnode 2 days ago |
    I used to think blizzard was one of the worst game companies for crushing dreams, but they've got nothing on funcom and sony. makes blizzard look like saints.
  • _the_inflator 2 days ago |
    Classics are for casual gamers who enjoy fixed settings. Redesigns are subscription models that revive a working brand and keep players happy with a constant flood of new features.

    I understand Blizzard wants to decide what story to tell about its IP. On the other hand, many gaming veterans still want to feel and grasp the before of a remake rather than the after alone.

    GOG hit a sweet spot for me. It simply fulfills my early adulthood dream: "One day, I will play all my good old games on CD again. See you fellas!"

    GOG is Netflix for my earliest games. But this is not the reason, I buy games there.

    Why did I buy a W2 at GOG over a year ago? It was not nostalgia but a closed-game approach.

    All new "cloud" games are subscriptions in disguise. I liked the fact that game mechanics in W2 were mostly figured out, and you had to max out under fixed conditions: working on skills, not play-testing new civs.

    That's the main difference between tradition and pure entertainment. All major forms of sport have a fixed rule set, with some minor tweaking here and there to leverage these.

    I don't have the time nor will to grasp these changes. Age of Empires: Conquerors lost its appeal to me, because as a casual player, I cannot keep up with all the new addons. Years ago, when there were hardly any addons, I still benefited from my former RM 2000+ rating earned around 2000 at the MS ZONE and could play quite competitively online without any pro-gamer training all the time. Not anymore.

    Imagine Basketball being modified significantly every season. This is what Formula 1 does now, with a lot of drama and storylines way beyond the sport, and I lost interest.

    • red-iron-pine 2 days ago |
      never thought i'd support bernie ecclestone in anything, but it's currently just stupid F1 drama bullshit every month. constant noise means i dgaf 99% of the time. bernie was right in his more limited marketing approaches.
  • mproud a day ago |
    That being said, Diablo II: Resurrected is fantastic.
    • torlok a day ago |
      So is StarCraft. I can't comprehend why the predecessor to their cash cow gets the "looks like it was upscaled with AI by an intern" treatment. The Warcraft II animations are objectively way worse in the remastered version.