• gnabgib a day ago |
    Related from 2 months ago:

    State of the climate: 2024 will be first year above 1.5C of global warming (5 points, 9 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42085978

    This year set to be first to breach 1.5C global warming limit (10 points, no comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42077420

    • ksclarke 10 hours ago |
      Looking at the number of points and comments on each (including this one), I remember something my mom (an elementary school teacher) always said: "You have to repeat something three times before people hear it."
  • SMP-UX a day ago |
    What, global warming?? Naaaaaillllll!
    • Timon3 a day ago |
      For those uninitiated, this is a quote from Dragonball Z: Abridged. It's a fan dub of DBZ until the Cell saga, with incredible amounts of work put into each aspect of the production.

      It's a true gem of the internet of the 2010s, and a must-watch for any fan. A bunch of voice actors even started their careers through it!

  • a5c11 a day ago |
    Does that mean they are going to push Europeans even harder, and do nothing to countries which are the real culprit?
    • lm28469 a day ago |
      Which countries?
    • pjc50 a day ago |
      The real culprits are at the top of https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-pe... : gulf oil states, Australia, petrostate Canada, then the ones you'd expect like US and Russia.
      • igg a day ago |
        This list seem to be based on production based accounting if emissions. Consumption-based per-capita emissions are available here for those curious: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-capit...
        • _aavaa_ a day ago |
          Is there a version of this that isn’t per capita? The environment cares about absolute amounts not per capita amounts.
          • throawayonthe a day ago |
            absolute amounts of emissions by country is an arbitrary division, more people = more (demand for) industrial activity; for the numbers to be useful and actionable, they need to be understood in the context of the people those emissions are for, no?
            • meany a day ago |
              Doesn’t that assume that the production isn’t for export. For instance, if the EU and US export their industries to low wage, high population countries you would see their per capita numbers drop and overall leveling out. However, the damage to the climate would be equal. Essentially, you need to look at a lot of factors and think holistically about the problem.
              • _aavaa_ a day ago |
                No. The comment I replied to is about comsumption-based emissions, which attempt to account for exactly this. See the description in the link
            • _aavaa_ a day ago |
              At the end of the day, it's one ecosystem we all live it. It doesn't matter if the top polluter has 1 billion, 0.1 billion, or 10 billion people. The total amount of greenhouses gasses added to the atmosphere is too much. We all need to stop adding and then start removing.

              As for which metric to use, that depends on the argument you want to make. One can look at cumulative emissions and see how western nations have polluted much more historically, and should therefore do much more to clean up a mess their have contributed much more to.

              Their governments will retort: "Oh but we produce so little of current global emissions now, those other countries polluting more should change first".

              • Timon3 21 hours ago |
                But why are countries the best division? Why not continents, or unions of countries (e.g. EU or USA), or sub-country divisions like states, or even smaller regions? Countries don't have the highest possible impact on all people, that would probably be unions. It's also not the most direct impact, that would depend on each country, but for e.g. Germany that would be the individual states.

                The per-capita measurement allows you to directly and meaningfully compare any subdivision, while per-country isn't even meaningfully comparable with other per-country measurements.

                • _aavaa_ 19 hours ago |
                  > The per-capita measurement allows you to directly and meaningfully compare any subdivision, while per-country isn't even meaningfully comparable with other per-country measurements.

                  Compare to what end? The environment cares about total output, not per capita output.

                  > while per-country isn't even meaningfully comparable with other per-country measurements.

                  Why does it need to be?

                  • Timon3 19 hours ago |
                    > Compare to what end? The environment cares about total output, not per capita output.

                    Yes, and the environment does not care in any way about countries or other silly subdivisions. So we approach the problem as each of us humans having some carbon budget based on the limits of our environment. You can argue how exactly these budgets are distributed, but it's the only measure that matters. Because again: you're arbitrarily choosing to look at countries, when even other subdivisions along the same axis would make more sense. So why focus on countries specifically?

                    > Why does it need to be?

                    Because obviously a measurement that's comparable is more useful than one that isn't. It allows us to make determinations about what changes bring us closer to the goal of environmental sustainability, and which changes bring us further away. Do I really need to go on further?

                    • _aavaa_ 17 hours ago |
                      > So why focus on countries specifically?

                      Because it is at the country level that people corporate on international problems. And in many countries it is the federal (or equivalent level) which has the money required to build out the kind of projects needed change those numbers (or the legal authority to mandate it).

                      Ahh. I misunderstood what you meant. > while per-country isn't even meaningfully comparable with other per-country measurements.

                      I interpreted as “other per-country measurements” as (other measurements) not (same metric, different country).

                      I still think it’s not relevant. The changes and the target are still the same, i.e. stop burning shit.

                      • Timon3 17 hours ago |
                        > Because it is at the country level that people corporate on international problems.

                        It's also at the union level that people corporate on international problems, arguably more so than on the country level. Yet the largest differences occur at the regional level. Both would be more comparable, and would capture arguably more useful information. I just don't see how an arbitrary and incomparable measurement is better than one without those flaws.

                        > I still think it’s not relevant. The changes and the target are still the same, i.e. stop burning shit.

                        Yes, but it's easier to implement the necessary changes if everyone tries. It will be much harder to get the necessary investment from all voting populations if large discrepancies exist between groups of people.

                        • _aavaa_ 14 hours ago |
                          I think we’re talking about different things now. I’m saying that emissions should be measured one absolute levels per country since a) absolute pollution is what matters and) countries are the political blocks that dictate international laws and cooperations.

                          You seem to be talking about the groupings by unions and regions. I am unconvinced that people have a stronger affiliation for those than their country. Further, measuring emissions levels for the country as a whole. On a practical level, getting emission levels for a specific region or a specific union, must less particular individuals, is going to be much harder.

                          • Timon3 5 hours ago |
                            > I am unconvinced that people have a stronger affiliation for those than their country.

                            Why is the affiliation the relevant axis? Why not indirect political power (unions strongest) or direct political power (regions strongest)? You're arbitrarily choosing an arbitrary measurement.

                            > Further, measuring emissions levels for the country as a whole. On a practical level, getting emission levels for a specific region or a specific union, must less particular individuals, is going to be much harder.

                            I don't see how it could be more complex for unions since they are made up of countries. If we have measurements for countries, we have measurements for unions.

                            Similarly, you can't create country-wide measurements without measuring individual regions. At least in Germany we have pretty good coverage for the individual regions, which gives you much higher resolution data. So why not use that?

                            I don't see how you can arrive at "countries" as the best/most logical axis of measurement. The only use I see is if you want to tell people that other countries have much further to go (but I'm not accusing you of doing so).

              • pjc50 19 hours ago |
                > It doesn't matter if the top polluter has 1 billion, 0.1 billion, or 10 billion people

                Each polluter is an individual person making individual decisions.

                The thing people are dancing around is any concept of "rationing", because that's political suicide, but at the same time asking people who've only just got clean water and walk to work to reduce emissions while other people are taking multiple transatlantic flights per week looks a bit questionable.

                • _aavaa_ 17 hours ago |
                  > The thing people are dancing around is any concept of "rationing"

                  I don’t know who those people are. Also, another way to say rationing is “sharing”.

          • comte7092 a day ago |
            While your statement is fundamentally correct, the issue here is that people typically use these charts as an excuse to point the finger.

            The tension globally is between the west who has high per capita emissions, a long period of high emissions, and high living standards as compared to the global south who have a larger population and lower living standards and yet still high absolute levels of emissions.

            Telling China/india/et al that they’re the real problem is taken as “yeah we polluted for centuries to get rich but that’s all in the past, you need to stay poor in order to save the planet”.

            An alternative solution might be to have the west pay to help these countries develop more sustainably, but that’s met with anger by the rising nationalist elements. I mean even importing green tech from the global leader (China) is being resisted.

    • matthewmacleod a day ago |
      Who is “they”?
      • acadapter a day ago |
        I assume the unspecific "they" is a linguistic shortcut for "people in power"
    • toomuchtodo a day ago |
      China is rapidly decarbonizing, India is right behind, it is the US you have to convince to move faster (coal plants are rapidly on their way out, but US consumers prefer ICE pickups over EVs, and LNG exports must be prevented and substitutes found [carbon footprint determined to be substantially higher than coal]). Europeans have, for the most part, done very well considering the carbon profile of everything west of Poland. But they also need to speed up the EV uptake, with domestic EU automakers pleading "it's too hard" while China eats their lunch. Norway shows they way here imho, as they have reached their 2025 deadline of only new EVs being sold. Battery manufacturing is needed, as much as possible, batteries are the future of anything not seasonal storage.

      We did not leave the stone age because we ran out of stone, but because we found something better. This applies to renewables, EVs, batteries, etc as well, the problem is mostly solved, it is a matter of making the machine go faster is all. We need enough low carbon energy to replace everything fossil today (account for the orders of magnitude efficiency gains versus thermal generation, so not a 1:1 replacement needed), future energy growth, and energy needed to sequester 100+ years of emitted carbon.

      The exponential growth of solar power will change the world - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40746617 - June 2024

      (the Earth collects enough solar radiation in less than an hour to power humanity for a year)

      • KptMarchewa a day ago |
        > China is rapidly decarbonizing, India is right behind, it is the US you have to convince to move faster (coal plants are rapidly on their way out, but US consumers prefer ICE pickups over EVs, and LNG exports must be prevented and substitutes found [carbon footprint determined to be substantially higher than coal]).

        IDK, does not look that way:

        https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/india/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/usa/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/eu/

        At best China will stay the same, India will increase emissions, meanwhile both US and EU emissions will significantly drop.

        • toomuchtodo a day ago |
          I argue this ignores rate of change of manufacturing capacity and deployment trajectories, but concede all we can do is speculate based on data available today.
      • GenerWork 21 hours ago |
        >it is the US you have to convince to move faster...LNG exports must be prevented and substitutes found

        >Europeans have, for the most part, done very well

        These exports are happening because Europe has replaced its Russian gas with American gas.

        • toomuchtodo 21 hours ago |
          I am aware. Relying on gas imports of any sort is unsustainable long term (both from a geopolitical and environmental perspective), although they are a necessary bridge until EU energy security is reached.
        • t0bia_s 6 hours ago |
          Not sure if true, bit if so... You think it's less environment invasive to import gas from far away USA on tankers than bring it by pipes from country near by?
    • hn1986 19 hours ago |
      Won't make a difference if the leaders (Trump) doing even believe in climate change.
      • whamlastxmas 18 hours ago |
        Trump believes in it despite some past assertions around the narrative around climate change being silly, which to be fair, can be at times. He does dismiss it too much though and clearly promotes corporate greed and profit for others over environmental issues
  • bamboozled a day ago |
    Politicians: "WhY ArEn't yOuNg pEoPlE HaViNg kIdS?!"
    • spwa4 a day ago |
      I somehow doubt global warming is the problem. Average apartment size, average income, ie. "the economy" is going to provide an answer much more than global warming will.
      • bamboozled a day ago |
        Climate change will wipe trillions from the economy between now and 2050, so you'd have to assume some of what you describe is related and the negative economy impacts are already real.

        What do you think the hit to the tech sector will be from the fires in California?

        • pjc50 a day ago |
          I don't think the tech sector will be hit that badly, the push to increase energy consumption by making everyone use AI won't slow down. Most of tech is physically closer to SF than LA.

          Hollywood is being significantly affected though.

          • bamboozled a day ago |
            It has an impact, even if its just a distraction. I have friends who had family seriously affected by the fire that work in major tech companies who are taking time off to help out etc.

            I wasn't trying to suggest it's a major financial hit to the tech industry in California, but every event climate change linked extreme weather event like this does have a negative impact on output and profits.

      • whamlastxmas 18 hours ago |
        I have met many millennials in life that have multiple reasons for not having kids, but climate change has been a top reason for some of them
        • t0bia_s 6 hours ago |
          Whatever to justice selfishness and taking responsibility. At the end, it's culture of death that will be replaced by those, who are open for life, care and love. Look at fertility rate per woman in wealthy west countries. We are dying.
  • andrewstuart 20 hours ago |
    I wish the climate deniers who helped get us here had to pay some price.
    • t0bia_s 6 hours ago |
      Sounds like some kind of fascist slogan.
  • nojvek 20 hours ago |
    What amazes me is that FL is hit the hardest from Hurricanes yet the overwhelming view is that climate change is a haux. The words "climate change" are banned from all official govt docs and communication.

    Big gas guzzling cars and utility companies building in more gas generators and hiking prices. Yes there is some solar, but it's <5%.

    I doubt much will change in next 4 years. Trump and Republicans are very pro carbon fuels.

  • t0bia_s 6 hours ago |
    Article full of Hume's guillotine, like most articles about climate and weather.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem

    • defrost 6 hours ago |
      Thermodynamics isn't a system of morality.
      • t0bia_s 5 hours ago |
        Sure, if you skip what should we do/don't.
        • defrost 5 hours ago |
          Give a few specific examples from the article.

          Should be easy if it's "full of them".

          • t0bia_s 4 hours ago |
            Right first sentence: "The planet has moved a major step closer to warming more than 1.5C, new data shows, despite world leaders vowing a decade ago they would try to avoid this."

            "We must exit this road to ruin - and we have no time to lose," he said in his New Year message, calling for countries to slash emissions of planet-warming gases in 2025."

            "Last year's heat is predominantly due to humanity's emissions of planet-warming gases,..."

            "The 1.5C figure has become a powerful symbol in international climate negotiations ever since it was agreed in Paris in 2015, with many of the most vulnerable countries considering it a matter of survival."

            Many more across article...