• gjsman-1000 20 hours ago |
    Tim Sweeney literally exploits children’s psychology on an Epic scale with Fortnite V-Bucks. He doesn’t get a say about anything, and in a sane world, would probably be in prison (and he wouldn’t be alone).
    • lern_too_spel 20 hours ago |
      That doesn't make him wrong here.
      • gjsman-1000 20 hours ago |
        That doesn’t make him any more right than someone who pulled this claim out of his rear. Tim Sweeney has hated all of these people for years, so it’s a fine slur completely in line with past comments.
        • lern_too_spel 19 hours ago |
          Yes, your GGP comment doesn't make him right. His words explaining his argument make him right on this particular topic.
    • sushid 20 hours ago |
      I find Fortnite to have a much more reasonable monetization pattern compared to literally all other games that children play nowadays (Genshin and Roblox being the two most problematic). I also love that Epic is the only attempt at breaking the Steam game distribution monopoly we have today.

      Also, Sweeney not wrong. Billionaires are lining up to pay Trump his dues because it'll lead to more $$.

      • wccrawford 19 hours ago |
        I'm not saying Genshin's pull-gambling isn't problematic, but it was one of the first I knew of that have a pity system, where you'd eventually be guaranteed to get the unit you wanted. As a player that pays $5/mo for some gems and gets all their other gems for free, I've hit that pity payout quite a few times since launch.

        I wouldn't call it "one of the most problematic". It's bad, but it's not even close to the worst.

        Fortnite does feel a lot more reasonable to me. From what I know of it, you pay for things directly, or you pay for a pass that you earn things on if you just play enough. And it's pretty cheap, compared to other online service-based games.

        • gjsman-1000 19 hours ago |
          How about we accept the truth that any child psychologist would tell you: they are both, and all, exploitative. The only thing that could remotely considered ethical would be a game paid for upfront.

          It’s like saying that it’s better that our children are smoking cigarettes instead of smoking weed. How about we just stop the smoking in the first place?

        • prophesi 19 hours ago |
          And it's not pay-to-win. I bought a skin when I was playing Fortnite just because I sunk enough time into it. Gachas in games like Genshin, on the other hand, directly impact gameplay and prey on the frustration of F2P gamers and their sense of progression. I'm a fan of microtransactions when it's purely cosmetic.

          I got into Pokemon TCG Pocket recently, and the temptation to pay to keep pulling cards / doing wonder picks is strong. I can see why it's making almost as much as Pokemon Go's launch.

          • RGamma 19 hours ago |
            IMO framing any discussion around pay2win is missing the forest for the trees and playing into publisher's hands.

            On Gamebanana (formerly FPSBanana) you'll find a million pieces of non-P2W content for certain games created for free.

            Sure hosting the stuff is not free and has never been, but discussing the nuances of monetary addons is very far from the firsts of complaining about horse armor DLC or the distinction of extensions and addons, given that gaming was paid of gamers' own pocket for a long time.

            The narrative is shifting/has shifted from a cultural to a consumerist artifact, exactly as intended.

            • prophesi 18 hours ago |
              I would consider modding very different from pay-to-win mechanics. We're talking about live service games with anticheat and online communities.

              I think it's just the nature of live service games that have grown in popularity, their expectation of ongoing content creation, rising salary/production costs for said game development, and the wild success MMORPG's discovered years ago with gacha whales. I will say I greatly appreciated the F2P cosmetics-only business model during my MMO days as a student with no income.

              Kind of rambling at this point, but my problem lies in the exploitative psychology commonly found with microtransactions in these sorts of games. Cosmetics-only seems to relieve a lot of the pressure to take out one's wallet.

              • RGamma 17 hours ago |
                Live service games are a phenomenon of securing income streams. In the cultural era this live service has been done by (let's face it) mostly children such as formerly you and me.

                There never was a significant beneficial income (or rather: profit) stream. Only a stream of (self-limiting, but sometimes long lasting) experiences.

                I have thousands of hours on a multiplayer game that cost 20 bucks. Its obscure sub-community has lived on for 20 years largely self hosted despite the formal "need for development".

                I get that this also is about the ever precarious profession of an artist, but the market may simply not be as large. Content creators (hate to use the term) work for a living at the margins to create ever more stuff, to squeeze through the tight attention grid (dozens of games get published on Steam every day now!)

                This creates pressure and it motivates the need for repeatability of transactions, so this story may not necessarily be about greedy execs alone (though it certainly can be!).

                I find it ultimately tragic. So much creative talent chasing too little attention and only the most predative sustaining. When the market was more restricted these effects weren't as pronounced and you could more readily create mythologies (such as around Half Life or FF7)

    • add-sub-mul-div 20 hours ago |
      In a sane world we let random citizens condemn each other based on imaginary laws?
      • gjsman-1000 19 hours ago |
        If you wrote a web app for elderly people which demanded $799 every time they needed tech assistance, with said assistance coming straight from Pakistan and thus unintelligible, there’s no law against that.

        But seriously, if you have literally once condemned something that doesn’t have a law against it, that shows your argument is trash.

    • insane_dreamer 20 hours ago |
      I dislike Tim Sweeney very much.

      But it doesn't make what he's saying here wrong.

    • slowhadoken 19 hours ago |
      It's hilarious that Epic would throw shade at anyone lmfao
    • tjpnz 17 hours ago |
      What's your point? You could literally say the same thing about Mark Zuckerberg and Instagram.
  • scheeseman486 20 hours ago |
    It's not pretending if you're actually doing it.
    • PlunderBunny 18 hours ago |
      "You are whatever you pretend to be, so you had better like who you pretend to be." - paraphrased from Kurt Vonnegut.
  • JohnnyLarue 20 hours ago |
    It's just pretend capitalism bro, we're just trolling, lol
  • thallium205 20 hours ago |
    Is this guy ever not whining about something?
  • insane_dreamer 20 hours ago |
    Of course, currying favor with the new administration.

    This has always been the case, of course, but it feels much more out in the open now. Where does the slippery slope end? Go down this road too far and these tech companies will end up like their counterparts in China (Baidu, Tencent, Alibaba, etc.) who do the autocratic government's bidding in controlling the population (by controlling information) for fear of retribution to their bottom line.

    • nazgulnarsil 19 hours ago |
      Already
    • scarab92 18 hours ago |
      I suspect individuals capable of being tech leaders are also capable of holding less partisan opinions.

      I suspect most don’t really see themselves as a Democrat or a Republican, but individuals with their own principals, which makes it easier to see where there is alignment with each side.

    • jhanschoo 16 hours ago |
      > where does this slippery slope end? [...] who do the autocratic government's bidding in controlling the population (by controlling information) for fear of retribution to their bottom line.

      The people have exercised power and voted for Trump. Corporations currying favor with the currently fashionable leader is what you should want, because the currently fashionable leader represents the interests of the people, and this is a check that the people have over corporations. You theoretically want to go all the way down this slippery slope for as long as the people control their government; the people are sovereign, and invest their power in an elected government; that in turn invest in corporations the freedoms that they need to maximize prosperity.

      Or is something wrong with the institutions today that despite Trump winning both in terms electorally and the popular vote, this is somehow undemocratic? I would like for you to examine why a dynamic that is supposed to be democratic has led you to consider that it is aligned with autocracy (I think you mean authoritarian here); such an exercise will help with the quality of the discussion we are having.

      • insane_dreamer 14 hours ago |
        Trump tried to overturn the results of an election. That should never happen in our democracy and he should never have been allowed to run for president. There's not even any point in debating policies. It's not about Republican vs Democrat, it's about democracy vs authoritarianism, which he tried to do 4 years ago and was only stopped by Pence and the Georgia Sec of State.

        So yes, very undemocratic.

        I did mean autocracy -- that's what China has become (once again) under Xi.

        • jhanschoo 13 hours ago |
          No matter what Trump tried to do, I think that winning the popular vote and election is the highest form of democratic legitimacy. Xi was not elected by the people, and the party's election of their head of party was not fair (there is coercion); that's why some people say that he is an autocrat. A government cannot be autocratic when its head-of-state is decided by an election that is quite representative. If the US were an autocratic government, the election would be meaningless, and Biden would be naming his successor. Which is not presently the case.

          The best argument I can give for your statement is that the present US population democratically chooses as their head-of-state a person who would like the government to be more autocratic, or have authoritarian personalities, or are strongmen; between Chávez, Marcos, Duterte, Modi, and Bolsonaro, among others, you will be able to find instances where strongmen with great popular support are elected in sufficiently fair and free elections. I still consider they reflect the will of the people, even as some regard that the people suffer for that choice.

          In which case, my original point still stands; I still think you want companies to want to cooperate with governmental leadership in a well-functioning democracy, and you have misidentified where dysfunction lies (if there is dysfunction) by thinking that for things to be arranged otherwise would be democratic.

          • insane_dreamer 11 hours ago |
            you're really missing the point. Having an autocratic president weakens the foundations of democracy. If Trump is okay reversing a free and fair election, then he is okay with acting in ways that are completely undemocratic, whether those who voted for him (less than 50% of voters, by the way), agree or not. So yes, a government that is elected can absolutely become autocratic if its leader is able to undermine the pinnings of democracy and does not encounter sufficient opposition. (Hitler came to power as the result of elections too.)

            You don't seem to have a problem with autocracy, but I do. I've lived in countries with those leaders - and Trump is cut from the same cloth. Enjoy it while it lasts.

          • rootlocus 10 hours ago |
            > quite representative

            Under first-past-the-post, and electoral college, there isn't that much representation even with the popular vote.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

            > I still think you want companies to want to cooperate with governmental leadership in a well-functioning democracy

            Without education, people will succumb to bias, propaganda and misinformation, often voting against their own interests. There's already a fundamental issue with capitalism favouring profit above anything else, leading to a lot of the current issues with (for example) privatization of health care. I don't think you can have a functional democracy without education. As a species we keep falling into a pattern of a wealth gap, followed by extremism, followed by wars, followed by poverty, while at every individual step we find reasons why it's perfectly fine.

      • ryandvm 5 hours ago |
        That's an interesting point, but if you follow it just a little bit further you'll realize the problem. Corporations shouldn't live in existential fear of the executive administration because then they'll kowtow to every executive demand regardless of the legitimacy.

        What happens if Trump decides that every media outlet that criticizes him should be muzzled? Your suggestion is that all these born again Republican companies should play along and turn themselves into FOX News. That is a feedback loop that would permanently enshrine the current officeholders.

        • mike_hearn 2 hours ago |
          That perspective assumes people are passive receptacles, who simply vote for whatever the TV tells them to vote for. But most US TV news and newspapers was supporting Harris, and in every election Trump was outspent by his opponents. People aren't slates on which other people scribble, they have agency and make their own decisions.
    • tim333 6 hours ago |
      It's different this time because Musk helped get Trump elected and is there as First Buddy and they are scared he'll use that to advantage X and Xai etc to take over the market from them.
  • Xunxi 20 hours ago |
    Starts seeing with adapting a strategy that works in the best interest of your company.

    It is up the leadership to weigh the upside against the odds, short term reprieve or the consequences of going against the grain.

    Pick your poison.

    • ryanmcbride 19 hours ago |
      I pick not siding with the cartoon fascists
      • rcruzeiro 19 hours ago |
        I fear people like you and me might become extinct.
      • whamlastxmas 19 hours ago |
        I agree, the entire US political establishment is really problematic
    • piva00 17 hours ago |
      Money above all is a freak ideology, completely understand the incentives but it's quite sad to see this industry's slow descent.
  • friend_Fernando 19 hours ago |
    Tech leaders are just making do like the rest of us, swirling around while the world goes down the drain.
  • kristopolous 19 hours ago |
    It's just a liability calculation.

    To become a "tech leader" your values of market dominance and maximizing profit overrides any party sentiment.

    Look at international chains - they're in countries that are democratic, authoritarian, theocratic, monarchist, capitalist, socialist ... it doesn't matter

  • ljsprague 19 hours ago |
    There's definitely no currying of favor when you donate to Democrats though.
    • jarsin 19 hours ago |
      Sweeneys tweet starts with: "After years of pretending to be democrats, big tech is now pretending to be republican..."
    • TMWNN 15 hours ago |
      The word "currying" is never used at all in that context. There is no coverage at all, typically, because it's accepted as a good and virtuous thing. Do you remember seeing standalone articles about [insert company here] donating to a presidential inauguration fund? Of course not; there is no more mention than the fifth paragraph in an article discussing overall planning for the inauguration itself, with a few names mentioned as representative examples of how corporate America is donating to this celebration of American democracy.
  • jas39 19 hours ago |
    I thought the Zuck interview with Rogan was pretty genuine though.
  • jasdi 19 hours ago |
    Opportunists. Not Leaders.

    Tech Opportunists could coast taking advantage of Moore's Law, outsourcing and low interest rates for decades. As the environment changes, we will see new types of leadership.

  • antisthenes 18 hours ago |
    Big business pretending to be whatever flavor of tribalism the current wind carries. A tale as old as time.
  • tjpnz 17 hours ago |
    Why am I no longer able to vouch for flagged submissions?
    • jarsin 16 hours ago |
      It got kicked from near the top of the homepage well before it had the flag status. Maybe something to do with that.

      I've heard superusers have the ability to kick stories off the homepage, but not sure if that is true.

  • anotherhue 16 hours ago |
    I don't like this being flagged. This is a leader in our industry, involved in precedent setting legal action, discussing the solipism of his opposing side, and the further weakening of the laws on which he relies.

    This is as relevant as anything we can have here.

    @dang if you're taking opinions I vote it stays.

    • 1vuio0pswjnm7 14 hours ago |
      Flagging only potentially limits further discussion, i.e., the ability of HN commenters to add more comments and votes. The submission stays regardless of being flagged.

      I'm not a gamer but Tim Sweeney seems like he has some integrity unlike these so-called "tech leaders".

      • m463 9 hours ago |
        what's the difference between flagged and dead?
  • barkingcat 14 hours ago |
    Lining up to kiss the ring.
  • 0xbadc0de5 10 hours ago |
    Just for the sake of argument, what if they were just pretending to be Democrats? I think the "fair weather voter" is a real phenomenon - people are often more attached to being part of the winning team than they are to their political beliefs. And I don't see why tech leaders would be immune from this.